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The House on Saturday passed a $95 billion aid package that includes two long-awaited bills with $60.8 billion of Ukraine aid and $26 billion in aid to Israel.

The Ukraine bill, which passed with 311 votes in favor, 112 votes against, and one present, will now head to the Senate alongside the Israel aid bill and two others — one with aid for Taiwan and another that forces Tiktok's parent company to sell it.

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[-] SnotFlickerman 157 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

We really need laws against these laws where they just bundle a bunch of good things with a bunch of fucking terrible things, just to get it passed.

Tiktok and Ukraine Aid are entirely different issues, and they really shouldn't be in the same fucking bill.

Further, "banning" Tiktok is going to just about as well as those "Parental Advisory: Explicit Lyrics" did in the fucking 90's. A lot of time, effort, and wasted money for barely any real-world impact.

Tiktok is already becoming unpopular, because just like with Facebook, everyone's parents want to stay cool and hip and know what the youth are up to. Now its filled with millennials like myself who are pushing out Gen Z because they don't want us shitting up their spaces. Just like we didn't want our parents/adults invading our spaces and why millennials bailed on Facebook when it became Boomer central.

[-] ptz@dubvee.org 58 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

You've got many good points, and I'm not defending the Tiktok ban (or whatever technical thing it is), but counterpoint your last one:

Look what Facebook did to the boomers. Do we want to go through that again but with Millennials and Tiktok? Our generation has more experience with social media, granted. Still, that's part joke and part something I think about as an older, non-Tiktok millennial.

[-] deranger@lemmy.world 32 points 7 months ago

Do we want to go through that again but with Millennials and Tiktok?

No, but I don’t think banning an app will solve the problem, just like banning drugs doesn’t solve that issue. We need good education so people have critical thinking skills and can make good decisions for themselves. Even if a legal method was used to address the issue, banning a specific app will do little. I think you’d have to address the algorithmic delivery of content altogether to do this.

[-] zigmus64@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago

Can I ask what the problem is? I was of the understanding that the problem with TikTok was that they basically lied under oath to congress and were actively sending personal user data to China. Not sure anything but an outright ban will achieve any sort of remedy.

[-] jumjummy@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Yes, Tik Tok is as bad as any other social media PLUS it’s directly controlled by a hostile nation state to the US. It should absolutely be banned and/or completely divested from China.

Anyone saying this is unfair, go to China and see what their blocks look like for Western companies.

Tik Tok is a terrible platform allowing such direct access to US citizens to a foreign government.

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[-] ptz@dubvee.org 12 points 7 months ago

Again, wasn't defending the ban. Just addressing the other elephant in the room. :)

But yes, agreed. Critical thinking and media literacy skills are key.

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[-] kaitco@lemmy.world 38 points 7 months ago

While I do agree on including “unrelated” things together, these all sound like they are separate bills in this case.

Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan are all separate bills for “foreign aid”. The article isn’t 100% clear, but TikTok sounds like there is some separation. The reason I think they’re separate is that the article mentioned that they voted on each item, meaning that there’s at least 3-4 different votes.

It’s all the game of politics. “Shake my hand and I’ll shake yours” stuff, and Johnson, regardless of his overall beliefs, seems like he’s well-versed in the game.

If banning TikTok, as inane as that is, ensures we continue to aid Ukraine, then fine, ban it. eye roll

Israel, however, is the matter of getting enough of Rs to vote Yea to outweigh the Maggots. I don’t like it, but the feds spend billions of dollars on tons of stuff I dislike. If allowing a continued genocide in one country means that the same won’t happen in two others…(sigh)

[-] ptz@dubvee.org 33 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Israel, however, is the matter of getting enough of Rs to vote Yea to outweigh the Maggots. I don’t like it, but the feds spend billions of dollars on tons of stuff I dislike. If allowing a continued genocide in one country means that the same won’t happen in two others…(sigh)

Thank you for actually understanding that there is nuance to all of this. The people screeching about it are rightfully upset, but they seem to completely miss the point that all of these aid packages have to make it through a highly dysfunctional congress.

[-] alilbee@lemmy.world 16 points 7 months ago

They just do not understand political capital. Very common problem with populists.

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[-] Hyperreality@kbin.social 10 points 7 months ago

Israel, however, is the matter of getting enough of Rs to vote Yea to outweigh the Maggots. I don’t like it, but the feds spend billions of dollars on tons of stuff I dislike. If allowing a continued genocide in one country means that the same won’t happen in two others…(sigh)

And it's not as if a lack of funding would stop them anyway. It's largely symbolic and to ensure Israel keeps buying American.

[-] takeda@lemmy.world 27 points 7 months ago

I agree on keeping bills separate, but you seem to be confused. Tiktok wasn't in the same bill, the help for Ukraine, Taiwan and Israel was bundled together.

The reason for it was that the current speaker actually wanted help for Israel and Taiwan but was holding the bill because of Ukraine, which his orange friend doesn't support.

This is why it was held. Why the speaker had a sudden change of heart?

It was because two Republicans threatened to resign, leaving Democrats in majority and getting speakership (I wish that outcome would actually happened).

So he brought those bills to vote, but he split the bills. Because of it, now they have to go back to Senate, adding another unnecessary delay.

[-] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

This is why it was held. Why the speaker had a sudden change of heart?

nah, it was:

Mr. Johnson attributed his turnabout in part to the intelligence briefings he received, a striking assertion from a leader of a party that has embraced former President Donald J. Trump’s deep mistrust of the intelligence community. Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/us/politics/mike-johnson-turnaround.html

In some ways, a bit scary that what they told him really convinced him so readily. On the other hand I'm glad he was able to turn down local US politics (something I don't feel Republicans have been doing recently) and focus on external politics.

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[-] Ranvier@lemmy.world 16 points 7 months ago

While I agree with you in general, this is not what happened in this case.

The House voted on the four bills in succession, one day after a rare and extraordinary bipartisan coalition teed up the votes, with more Democrats (165) than Republicans (151) voting for the “rule” to proceed to the measures.

There was roughly speaking the Ukraine bill, the Israel bill, the Taiwan and other aid bill, and the tik tok bill. All separately passed. Ukraine funding was not on the same bill passed as the TikTok thing today.

Combining issues in bills isn't always bad and can be a vehicle toward compromise too. Separating things can even be a way of killing a bill. There are pros and cons, really depends on the situation.

[-] Lemminary@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

millennials bailed on Facebook when it became Boomer central

I get your point, but it wasn't everyone's reason for leaving. For example, I enjoyed having my family members on the same platform as me, but I actually left because of the shit moderation team that punishes the good people and praises the terrible ones. Resentment grows when you're punished over some bullshit arbitrary reason because a mod with an agenda got some bullshit report.

Sorry for the tangent to your main points, but social media has bigger problems than one group invading another.

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[-] fox2263@lemmy.world 124 points 7 months ago

Why does Israel need aid? To help them invade someone more?

[-] crossover@lemmy.world 43 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The realpolitik answer is that they’re the only country in the region with highly functioning western-style market economy. That is valuable to other functioning western style market economies. Its a system trying to help itself propagate.

[-] capem@startrek.website 13 points 7 months ago

That doesn't make any sense, considering support for Israel was the main cause behind the 9/11 attacks.

Seems like support for Israel is good for one nation: Israel.

[-] Amoxtli@thelemmy.club 10 points 7 months ago

The cause of 9/11 is US influence in the land of Mecca.

[-] Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip 12 points 7 months ago

Weird way to spell "They are white just like us" but ok ig

[-] danekrae@lemmy.world 121 points 7 months ago

Poor Israel can barely afford to murder children anymore.

[-] cabron_offsets@lemmy.world 115 points 7 months ago
[-] Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works 53 points 7 months ago
[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 31 points 7 months ago

"Fuck the House" would be a good name for a casino heist movie if movies could have 'fuck' in the title.

[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 18 points 7 months ago

Movies can have a little bit of fuck in the title, as a treat.

[-] Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works 10 points 7 months ago

Mum: We have fuck at home

Home: Heck

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[-] jaemo@sh.itjust.works 20 points 7 months ago

And my axe!

No! Wait! (Lengthy pause)

Use the axe to fuck the house, Israel AND the Orcs! Much better plan.

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[-] billiam0202@lemmy.world 68 points 7 months ago

"Can't" afford universal healthcare, and "can't" afford student debt relief, but we sure can magic up money for killing!

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 35 points 7 months ago

The US government spends more per capita in healthcare than any country with universal healthcare and then a big chunk of the population also pays for private health insurance over that.

It's not about not being able to afford it, it would even be cheaper.

[-] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 18 points 7 months ago

That's just the efficiency of the free market. It's certainly efficient at something, just not delivering quality health care or keeping costs down.

[-] billiam0202@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

That's why I put can't in quotes. We obviously can (because, as you pointed out, we already do) but there's a minority of Americans wielding outsized amounts of power keeping it from happening.

[-] iopq@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago

Yes, because killing Russian military saves lives. Russia is shelling cities in Ukraine, killing civilians. Your problems are valid, but are nothing compared to getting killed in your sleep by a Russian rocket

[-] n3m37h@sh.itjust.works 67 points 7 months ago

Should be 86.8 bil to Ukraine and 0 to the terrorist organisation of Isreal

[-] capem@startrek.website 52 points 7 months ago

and another that forces Tiktok’s parent company to sell it.

Capitalists never play fair, lol.

Can't wait to see some stupid western company take the place of tiktok then all the retards complaining about tiktok suddenly shutting up.

They don't realize there's a trade war going on and they're just useful idiots in it.

[-] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 57 points 7 months ago

TikTok is cancer regardless of who owns it.

[-] febra@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago

And at the same time if you preach so much free market economics then you should just learn to live with it and don't buy the product if you don't like it

[-] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 25 points 7 months ago

Please show me an example where I

preach so much free market economics

(If you don’t find one it’s because I never did.)

[-] laurelraven 10 points 7 months ago

I think they were referring to the ones who voted to ban it

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[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 21 points 7 months ago

Anything from China is anything but free market. Chinese companies are still owned by the state who practice state capitalism.

[-] Eximius@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

Free market for me but not for thee.

Yes, there is a trade war.

Don't be naive about NSA and US propaganda/surveillance.

[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

There doesn't need to have NSA propaganda when China themselves say they are state capitalists and allow billionaires to flourish.

[-] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 7 months ago

Don’t fall for the straw man.

[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

It's not a strawman, commie.

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[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 22 points 7 months ago

Nah. I don't think Bytedance sells. The big enchilada is the source code and that's not getting sold because there's 6 Billion more people they can get on the app.

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

There are several right-wing groups eager to buy it, which is 100% why they're going after it.

Reddit, Twitter, TikTok, and Facebook. They're going to control all of it soon.

Din they'll be requiring expensive identity verification for online accounts to make the fediverse financially unsustainable.

[-] jaemo@sh.itjust.works 34 points 7 months ago

I wonder if Orange Julius Caesar will be getting an aggrieved call from Pootin....

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 21 points 7 months ago

Ahead of the vote, former President Donald Trump issued a confusing statement that sympathized with both the pro- and anti-Ukraine aid factions of the GOP without taking a clear position.

very much. more and more.

[-] MonkderDritte@feddit.de 15 points 7 months ago

That guy still wasn't fired?

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this post was submitted on 20 Apr 2024
506 points (100.0% liked)

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