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Why I just hand my browsing data over to my ISP (and so should you)
Why I let random websites have my unique location-specific identifier (and so should you)
That's not how that works
How does it work?
Didn’t watch the video, but… Traffic is often already encrypted with TLS or other encryption & you don’t have to use the ISP for DNS. This would cover a lot of the data you would be discussing. Instead if using these advertized commercial VPNs you are giving the data to those corporations instead which is hardly better in many cases—luckily most of your traffic is encrypted with TLS & you don’t have to use them for DNS …which takes us back to the previous statement for concerns.
There’s still value in VPNs for a several online activities (censorship, piracy, activism, etc.) & threat models to certain folks, but assuming the ISP is the bogeyman in most common scenarios for non-niche use cases is incorrect—but it isn’t how these commercial VPNs are selling themselves. If the ISPs possess the ability to break TLS encryption we’d have bigger issues to worry about & VPNs wouldn’t help. I would assume the video goes in this route but chooses the clickbait title for views.
If possible, I don't want my ISP to know, trade, and sell as little data about me as possible.
T-Mobile Employees Across The Country Receive Cash Offers To Illegally Swap SIMs
I know VPNs often exaggerate or outright lie, but they still benefit me in ways I consider valuable.
If it’s all encrypted & they don’t have the DNS requests, all they can see is that you sent X bytes to some IP which isn’t very helpful. Who’s to say these VPNs aren’t selling their data back to the ISPs anyhow?
Encryption doesn't mean perfectly hidden. Metadata isn't encrypted for HTTPS iirc. And the ISP knows who your sending traffic to since they are routing you there and are usually your DNS. When connected to a good and trusted VPN, all that is hidden, your DNS can't give away your location, and the only server you contact is the VPN
What metadata? The headers are as encrypted as the payload. That there was a key exchange between you & a server isn’t too useful.
“Usually” is a strong word for DNS as well since all OSs let you change it & the megacorporations like Google & Cloudflare have already compelled a lot of folks to use their DNS ta resolve faster since the ISP ones are slow (& the smarter, curious folks used that as a launching point to find other provider or self-host). Some platforms have even been shipping DNS-over-HTTPS to get around some of these issues (since the payload & headers are encrypted under TLS).
It doesn't matter if they are encrypted if you can sell the data about what the user is doing (eg if your connecting to a shopping website your probably shopping their). Better to obfuscate the source by choosing an endpoint that isn't geographically related and associated with your identity. I only would ever recommend using a VPN that is open source and well audited by a renowned 3rd party auditor(s). https://luxsci.com/blog/what-is-really-protected-by-ssl-and-tls.html
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You are handing your data over to the VPN. However, with https only and encrypted DNS there is a lot less data to hand over
Why would you hand your browsing data to the VPN company? It's just moving the problem.
Market competition still exists for them, so they actually have a reason to live up to their promises still
Do ISP's monitor or sell or pass on your data? Yes.
Do VPN's? Depends on the VPN. Find one that doesn't and can back that up with 3rd party audits and legal encounters.
So can a good VPN protect your privacy? No, not by themselves. A VPN is part of an overall toolkit to be as private as you personally would like to be. It can help protect your privacy, that's all.
It's really that simple.
3rd party audits and legal encounters
The problem I have with this is that audits or court cases do not prove that the server is only using that same exact code at the instant you are using it... changes to software are constantly made all the time, and they could all invalidate previous audits or presumptions of privacy or security.
That's true, there's always going to have to be some trust, but a provider that takes the time and expense to invest in a privacy audit or defend their clients by not logging and establishing that in court certainly indicates they're worth having that trust in.
A) as others have pointed out this is a rather shit video
B) I fucking hate the "and nor should you" trend. Fuck off with what I should or shouldn't do, just give me the facts and I'll decide for myself.
I don't like the way it sounds, but I appreciate the honesty. Videos like this are always prescriptive, even if they present themselves as if they are a personal, "just for my needs" thing.
By the way, do you remember a video and Medium article posted by someone who was trying to convince us that big companies like Google aren't really privacy invasive?
many ISPs over here offer a ~5-10% discount on monthly bills if you agree to have your traffic analysed for marketing purposes. the last time I signed a contract I had to explicitly opt out of that. the ISP providing internet to all of my landlord's flats offers a similar deal when signing a contract, and 1. I'm willing to bet that my landlord has opted in, and 2. I have no way of opting out of that for my flat. I think I'll stick with a VPN for the foreseeable future.
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What was the reason?
VPNs are centralized entities that can monitor traffic in bulk
My ISP, who I pay $100/mo for internet, tells me straight up that it monetizes my browsing data. I pay $5 a month to a VPN that 'promises' it doesn't do that. Safer bet is the VPN. Even if they (VPN) sell my data, I prefer to spite the ISP anyway.
$100/mo?!
Yup. Small town USA. 1Gig down 25Megs up.
I see. Sure. There's a risk of course.
But VPN companies are not legally obligated to collect and save your Internet usage data like your ISP is.
So select a provider that doesn't, like Mullvad.
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(The NSA think they're slick)
Firstly, using a VPN ultimately consists in trusting the company providing the VPN service that it won't be fucking around with your privacy. Considering that all your traffic goes through it, that's a lot of trust to place in one company. And I generally don't trust any tech company to resist the lure of selling your data for profit for very long in 2024 - even those that profess to be privacy-friendly.
Secondly, modern corporate surveillance doesn't rely on IP addresses anymore. So if you think a VPN protects your privacy, it really doesn't. All it does is tell Google et al. which VPN provider you're a customer of - i.e. you're giving them even more data that they don't need to have.
That's why I don't even bother with a VPN. I only use one to evade geo-blocking every once in a while.
using a VPN ultimately consists in trusting the company providing the VPN service that it won't be fucking around with your privacy. Considering that all your traffic goes through it, that's a lot of trust to place in one company.
Is that any different than the trust we place in our ISPs?
I agree with you. I fully expect my ISP/VPN provider to sell my traffic data, but I don't see the value in paying a VPN do to it.
Is that any different than the trust we place in our ISPs?
It's not. Your ISP is probably selling your data, and your VPN may or may not do that too. Just assume everybody sells your data.
The difference is, when you leave home and you connect to a wifi, you start using another ISP. If you then lose the wifi and connect using 4G, you're using yet another ISP. If you use a VPN, you funnel all your traffic to a single provider all the time. In other words, instead of distributing the risk over several potentially bad actors, you concentrate it on a single one.
Like I said, that's a lot more trust that I'm willing to place in a single company that only essentially pinky-swears won't put me under surveillance.
Nice try NSA
, said the glowing figure confidently, while blinking hard and rubbing his nose
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this post was submitted on 14 Apr 2024
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Privacy
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