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submitted 4 months ago by ForgottenFlux@lemmy.world to c/privacy@lemmy.ml
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[-] catalog3115@lemmy.world 150 points 4 months ago

E2EE is not supposed to protect if device get compromised.

[-] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 70 points 4 months ago

One could argue that Windows is compromised right out of the box.

[-] refalo@programming.dev 10 points 4 months ago
[-] Vilian@lemmy.ca 12 points 4 months ago

source: 93% of ransomware are windows based

[-] WldFyre@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago

99% of people in France are French

[-] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 months ago
[-] Neon@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago
[-] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 months ago

I mean… basically

[-] uis@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Therefore France is french righr out of box

[-] refalo@programming.dev 8 points 4 months ago

Correlation is not causation.

[-] uis@lemm.ee 3 points 4 months ago

Causation was never stated nor implied

[-] Zpiritual@lemm.ee 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Microsoft are integrating adware and spyware straight into the os.

[-] refalo@programming.dev 3 points 4 months ago
[-] far_university1990@feddit.de 3 points 4 months ago

Try setup fresh windows 11 system.

[-] refalo@programming.dev 2 points 4 months ago

I don't understand how that would prove anything.

[-] far_university1990@feddit.de 1 points 4 months ago

A lot of tracker and spyware already mention in setup. And without bypass you cannot setup without microsoft account.

[-] Zpiritual@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago

It's right there in the open. Install windows and you'll see it. There is personalised ads in the start menu and the os is uploading your private files to the cloud automatically, taking screenshots and uploading them, etc. It's not hidden whatsoever.

[-] it_depends_man@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

"The computer" decides when to install updates and which ones to install.

[-] potatopotato@sh.itjust.works 20 points 4 months ago

Intrinsically/semantically no but the expectation is that the texts are encrypted at rest and the keys are password and/or tpm+biometric protected. That's just how this works at this point. Also that's the government standard for literally everything from handheld devices to satellites (yes, actually).

At this point one of the most likely threat vectors is someone just taking your shit. Things like border crossings, rubber stamped search warrants, cops raid your house because your roommate pissed them off, protests, needing to go home from work near a protest, on and on.

[-] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 21 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

If your device is turned on and you are logged in, your data is no longer at rest.

Signal data will be encrypted if your disk is also encrypted.

If your device's storage is not encrypted, and you don't have any type of verified boot process, then thats on you, not Signal.

[-] uis@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Signal data will be encrypted if your disk is also encrypted.

True.

and you don't have any type of verified boot process

How motherboard refusing to boot from another drive would protect anything?

[-] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Its more about protecting your boot process from malware.

[-] uis@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Well, yes. By refusing to boot. It can't prevent booting if motherboard is replaced.

EDIT: s/do anything/prevent booting/

[-] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Thats correct. Thats one of the many perks.

[-] uis@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago

EDIT: s/do anything/prevent booting/

[-] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

If the hardware signatures don't match, it wont boot without giving a warning. If the TPM/Secure Enclave is replaced/removed/modified, it will not boot without giving a warning.

[-] uis@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

If the hardware signatures don't match

Compromised hardware will say it is same hardware

If the TPM/Secure Enclave is replaced/removed/modified, it will not boot without giving a warning.

Compromised hardware controls execution of software. Warning is done in software. Conpromised hardware won't let it happen.

[-] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Compromised hardware doesn't know the signatures. Math.

[-] uis@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago

Compromised hardware can't create new signatures, but it doesn't matter because it controls execution of software and can skip any checks.

[-] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

If the hardware is tampered, it will not pass the attestation test, which is an online component. It will fail immediately and you will be alerted. Thats the part of verified boot that makes this so much harder for adversaries. They would have to compromise both systems. The attestation system is going to be heavily guarded.

[-] uis@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

which is an online component.

So, storing on Signal's server key to decrypt keys. Welcome back to apple-isms and online-only.

It will fail immediately and you will be alerted.

Provided you have some other non-compromised way of communications.

[-] 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Yes, verified boot will have out-of-bands alerts for you by design. Without the online component, you will risk not being able to detect tampering.

[-] Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 4 months ago

TPM isn't all that reliable. You will have people upgrading their pc, or windows update updating their bios, or any number of other reasons reset their tpm keys, and currently nothing will happen. In effect people would see Signal completely break and loose all their data, often seemingly for no reason.

Talking to windows or through it to the TPM also seems sketchy.

In the current state of Windows, the sensible choice is to leave hardware-based encryption to the OS in the form of disk encryption, unfortunate as it is. The great number of people who loose data or have to recover their backup disk encryption key from their Microsoft account tells how easily that system is disturbed (And that Microsoft has the decryption keys for your encrypted date).

[-] RealFknNito@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

Plaintext should never be used in any application that deals with security, ever.

[-] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 8 points 4 months ago

Oh no, tell that to SSH.

[-] eager_eagle@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

unless you're reading ciphertext yourself, this doesn't make sense

[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It doesn't use plain text. It is end to end encrypted but that isn't what this "issue" is

[-] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Mfw end to end can be compromised at the end.

That said, they should fix this anyway

[-] uis@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago

Indeed, End-to-End Encryption protects data between those ends, not ends themselves. If ends are compromised, no math will help you.

this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2024
494 points (100.0% liked)

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