1119
Back when America had a great tradition
(i.imgur.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 27 May 2024
1119 points (100.0% liked)
Political Memes
5405 readers
3041 users here now
Welcome to politcal memes!
These are our rules:
Be civil
Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.
No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
Posts should be memes
Random pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.
No bots, spam or self-promotion
Follow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Earlier, imgur removed a post featuring a Nazi getting punched and so, the Front Page and a nice chunk of Usersub, is all Nazi-punching and fash-bashing.
Since we're leaving the definition of tolerance ambiguous this can justify the persecution of anyone.
Yes that does including being a piece of biggot
Even a tiny piece of ignorant fool.
It's a shotgun people want to use to justify violence based on any definition they want. You realize christians have a persecution complex and could use the same argument? We can just actually dive into specifics of situations and find actual ethical positions.
But nah. That's too hard. Let's just band wagon.
All this time I thought it was written bandwagon, instead of band wagon
I don't know why I put the space in, to be honest. I'd generally spell it without even if it's wrong.
At least you didn't hyphenate it
Its a different dynamic when those people are in power. I get what you are saying though.
It is. I'm digging into those, uh, extreme cases with another lemming at the moment.
It's really very simple.
Replace "tolerance" with "respect."
If you don't respect the rights of other people to exist, we have no reason to respect your right to exist.
Back in the day, "outlaw" was someone who had forfeited the rights of a citizen, and could be hunted down like a dog.
What counts as disrespecting someone's right to exist?
Idolizing mass murder.
So the gals that send love letters to serial killers should get the rope?
Guess it really burns you that guys in jail are getting more play than you are, doesn't it?
Don't deflect. You said it's very simple than chose another uselessly vague term.
Don't deliberately ignore nuance to start internet arguments. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm asking for the nuance. I'm asking for the lines in the sand. I choose to primarily talk to leftists for a reason. The fact that a conversation about ethics is beyond the pale is nutter butters.
OOOh, guess I touched a nerve there.
I mean, I get it. I've seen plenty of guys like you on the webs. Keyboard warriors who think they are tough minded, but somehow never manage to actually talk to a girl. Guys who are too scared to go to a Starbucks because the baristas intimidate them.
I mean, what are you going to do now your hero Andrew Tate is in jail?
It's sad in one way.
So, so sad.
Pointing out that you're avoiding the argument isn't exactly triggered. And I'm arguing in favor of non-aggression, so your attempts to hide your failings are worse than the initial gambit.
You just can't let it go, can you?
I point out that you're obsessed with the fanmail serial killers get and instead of just ignoring it, you decide to double down.
Guess it really, really keeps you up at night.
I feel like you're having trouble following instead of just refusing to confront internal inconsistencies at this point. Either way, hug a dead veteran today.
Hmmm, let's see.
I speak out against idolizing mass murderers, and the first thing you think of is girls writing to serial killers.
You could have talked about things like sports teams with names like "Vikings," or "Raiders."
You could have talked about movies like "The Godfather" or TV show "Black Sails."
No, you went with your obsession; the women who constantly scorn, deride, belittle, and/or ridicule you on a daily basis.
You're the one who brought up the idea of women flagrantly throwing themselves at the lowest scum while you sit alone and miserable, crying over your keyboard and smashing your head against the wall in anguish.
You bring it up because that's what haunts your thoughts, day and night.
And how do I know this? What makes me so sure?
Anyone who isn't obsessed like you would have simply stopped responding.
Like they say, truth let's the facts speak for themselves, but lies repeat over and over.
You're off your rocker. I chose a ridiculous example, because they idolize mass murderers and at most need therapy rather than a bullet - but that outcome fits your poorly thought out definition.
Keep reaching.
You know, you keep saying that you don't care about it.
Over and over and over again and again and again.
You keep saying that you have no deep burning anger about the fact that there are women throwing themselves at jailed murderers, while you sit alone.
But something tells me that, no matter how many times you deny it to the rest of the world, you'll always know the truth in your heart.
I mentioned that I'm a non-aggression type, tried to explain in small words what my point was and called you out on your attempts to ignore the argument. I haven't even addressed your insane ramblings directly. I have no clue what conversation you think you're reading, but I'm genuinely impressed.
That guy is totally a lunatic. I know you know this but wanted to let you know other people see it too. The only way they can support their argument is making things up to insult you over and to deflect from answering questions, like a child. What a sad person.
Edit: Just for giggles, I briefly looked at their post history. Just hours before, they were criticizing someone for doing exactly what they're doing here.
Edit 2: I briefly noted their hypocrisy on the other comment and their response was fabrication, exaggeration of that fabrication, all to deflect from my point that they're being hypocritical. You just can't make this shit up.
Thanks. I kind of enjoy keeping people going. Sometimes they come back and actually have a conversation so it's worth it every so often.
I hope they're a troll rather than a deeply troubled person.
When you have to fabricate points to make your point, you're just lying.
The comments you're responding to are to the point and simple to understand, yet you keep mocking them in a way that shows you're entirely unable to understand them. I'm embarrassed for you.
You seem determined to locate the argument. Is that somehow a more valid stance than not wanting to engage?
Care to give a specific example?
In most sane places self-defense is allowed, so if someone is being violent you can use violence to stop them. Their really is only one use of this rhetoric - to break the Power Ranger rule and escalate from words to violence. You can find specific examples pretty quickly, but I know better than to point out the most obvious ones.
The issue is that it lets you skip some steps in justifying violent actions. There certainly are times that words can be enough to justify self defense, but they're pretty narrow situations. In an academic sense it's fine to use for analysis, but using it as a blanket excuse for violence is kind of weak.
I mean, if you can't find an example that isn't a fascist going mask off, then your just proving the point.
A fascist going mask off to me kind of involves attacking people. Not everyone will have the same definition.
Assuming you're talking about violence in response to peaceful, if shitty, ideas then you've found the ambiguity.
The statement is useless without actual definitions. So long as it's being used like this, the definition of intolerance will keep slipping so political opponents can be targeted without considering whether you're behaving morally.
Ok, yeah, this is what I wanted to get to. Otherwise we are just bouncing around vague ideas and I really didn't see an end to it.
Shitty ideas have consequences. There are several examples in history. Notably the German Nazi party. Which resulted in a lot of violence, death, and torture of innocent people. Not to mention a war. And it all started from a fascist ideology, just words.
At what point in time would violence been justified to prevent the bad stuff from happening? Hitler was just using words after all, until he had enough power. Then, well, you know.
Or are you of the opinion that violence should never be used? Like if we saw Hitler 2 coming, we should just talk about it and not do anything violent. Even if it means the same very bad outcomes.
Most don't. Most threats are toothless. Most angry words pass. Many people learn and grow, even from just words. Everyone is worthy of redemption. You've kind of chosen the worst result you can find to prove the rule, but genocides are more a result of pieces of shit getting into power more than words.
Regardless. Let's roll with the nazi angle. Edge cases are fun.
I haven't studied the rise of him well enough to give you a sane answer. Did he do a full Palpatine - just acted like a kind old man until he started gassing invalids? Or was it clear what his intent was? There's obviously a line before pumping exhaust into sanitariums.
Direct threats are actionable, and there are times I'm okay violating my own rules mildly - if someone gives my niece or nephew shit for miscegenation I'll be pretty close to violence.
I do give wide berth for expression, though. We're also mixing something else here - the difference between individual actors you can have empathy for and a government meatgrinder.
The line for intolerance is between bad ideas and outright genocide and the line for the response is between mean words and guillotines. This is kind of my point, though, right? We need to have some function where we can define an ethical response to an unethical action.
I am kinda confused while reading your post. It sounds like we agree. I am not by nature a violent person. In fact, I would rather not punch anyone. The problem is that history shows clear a progression when it comes to fascists. Their ideas spread like a virus and people who have not been educated about it are easily convinced, even though there is a bunch of history and philosophical evidence that bad outcomes will happen. Once they gain power, that is it.
As I am talking with the OP, it seems like they think that violence is never necessary. I think this is incorrect. I think you agree with me on that point at least.
I think the punching should only happen if they have a big audience or if they are open and loud about it. Obviously try to educate them first. But at the end of the day, if they are just a normal person that doesn't talk about their politics, and they salute a picture of Hitler before they go to bed. I am fine with that. They don't need to be punched, they can enjoy society as long as they stay quite about it.
The problem isn't the people, the problem is the idea. The people are fine as long as they don't spread the idea.
I feel like intolerance is kind of a wildcard. The initial intolerance could be anything from asking an ignorant question to trying to start a genocide, and the responding intolerance is much the same.
It's kind of like having a function that ignores the parameters and just gives a random response to intolerance. We agree because we've actually mapped the initial action to our reaction, so we know that with this input we get this other output.
Did I explain my objection well enough this time? I know it's probably me not knowing how to explain it properly.
Yeah, this makes sense. Would you feel better about the this: "It's ok to punch fascists"? Using the common definition for all these terms. I know this is slightly different from what OP was posting about.
It depends on the fascist? Common language suggests they're, what? None of them have real political ideals.
I'm good with punching people that use slurs or rhetoric to attack others,
Fascists want power to hurt people. They think they are making the world a better place by "removing" a "bad" group of people.
When do you start punching these people? If never, they are going to kill and harm a lot of people.
So, you start punching when they get credibly threatening. We let them be fucky and loud and when it gets violent or close to, we do damage.
Yes, I have no problem with that. I think we only need to target people who spread fascist ideology to a wide and/or large audience. The average fascist Joe, has very little reach and it would look bad if it seemed like random nobodies were being targeted.
Edit: When I say the average fascist Joe. I mean the average person who is a fascists. Not anyone named Joe. Sorry for any confusion.
Joe candidate or joe me?
Sorry, I meant the "average Joe" aka, the average person. I have edited my post to add clarification.
Mandatory
Religious school wants to teach creationism rather than evolution because it "goes against their beliefs" - law says they have to teach evolution because it's part of the national curriculum (which in turn is science based) and are not allowed to give creationism equal weight.
Religious school cries foul, says the government is bigoted and discriminating against their religion.
Is this a case of intolerance that needs to be bashed?
The government could probably still get them on sexual assault.
Oh for sure. Child marriage and genital mutilation is also an issue within this scope.
They're stuck 2 centuries in the past and expect to be able to impose their barbaric "beliefs" on everyone around them.
This depends, is the religious school private or public? If the religious school is private, is the religious belief publicly fascist in nature?
If the school was public then it is going against the law. The government has a monopoly on violence and will use the violence to uphold the law. So in this case, the police would be doing the bashing.
If it is private and not spreading harmful ideas, then it is fine.