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this post was submitted on 21 May 2024
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It'll be so fun when I'm going to the death camps and you're safe and sound in your suburban home, listening to the news reports on the radio. 😊
You think that's what will happen to you because that's what you're supporting in Gaza right now.
I think that's what will happen to me because the opposition is openly fascist, and people like you are doing their damndest to see a fascist regime elected here because you hate the grotesque foreign policy that has been established over the past 50 years.
Like, it's not something that is unreasonable to see as fucking grotesque; it's only unreasonable to demand that fascism be implemented here - not in the name of stopping the support of genocidaires in our foreign policy, but in the name of intensifying it. Just straight up saying "Yes, I want the greater evil, in all possible areas".
For some reason, this endorsement of the mass murder of Palestinians AND American minorities makes an alarming number of self-proclaimed leftists feel good about themselves.
Where have I endorsed the mass murder of American minorities? If I have done that by denying Biden my vote, then you are endorsing the genocide of Palestinians by assuring Biden of yours. Is that fair to say?
Have...you not been explained how FPTP works or are you deliberately ignoring everyone ?
I understand how it works, yes. What would you like to know about it?
So youre just privileged then. Gotcha.
In a lot of ways I am privileged, yes. Aren't we all? Tell you what though, I know some very much less privileged people than myself, that are similarly principled when it comes to genocide.
No, it's because you are unaffected by the downstream consequences of your actions. You get to pontificate on social media about how you won't succumb to the "two-party evil system" while going on about your day. Meanwhile, millions of Americans will be directly affected by Trump's policies. Remember: the presidency is not one person, but also their entire cabinet. So everything from environmental regulations to women's reproductive rights are consequentially downstream. But since none of these issues have any significant impact on your life and you have a very limited understanding of geopolitics you get to sit and preach to the world from your keyboard. If you want to be an accelerationist, then fucking embrace it and own up to the position. Don't hold your tail between your legs and beat around the bush. You should actually vote for Trump and burn the place down. Own it --don't be a bitch on Lemmy and abstain your vote. Just go all the way.
No, it's really not. Either voting is seen as an endorsement, and any vote endorses genocide while not voting doesn't; or a vote is a choice, and not voting or voting for Trump (or 3rd party) endorses genocide, while voting for Biden doesn't. They can't both be correct, you can't do a tit-for-tat, either you're supporting genocide or Pug is.
In an ideal world, we would vote for candidates that excite us, that share our views, or who we feel will simply do a good job. In an ideal world, you are afforded the luxury of voting like this. If you see voting as an endorsement then you're more likely to vote like this, and you're more likely to assign a moral reaponsibility to voting, such that you're responsible for the actions of the person that you vote for.
But you're also responsible for preventing the actions of the person that you didn't vote for. In the real world, in the US with FPTP, voting is a choice. You can vote for one, or the other, or say you don't care (not voting), or use your vote to try to take a moral stand (voting 3rd party). But barring a statistical miracle, there are only two options. The actions of the president WILL affect people. Palestinians will be killed. Queer people will be harrassed or protected. Workers will be beaten or supported. Students will be penniless or financially free. The environment will be abused or respected. Ukraine will be slaughtered or strengthened. The US could die or live.
When you choose not to vote, you think that you relieve yourself of the responsibility of killing Palestinian citizens. But how can you possibly say this if by not voting you have made their conditions materially worse? And along with that, caused the same for our own citizens and our planet? When you don't vote, you aren't escaping the system. You haven't avoided making a choice. You've simply said that you don't care what is chosen. So yes, not voting means that you don't care if things are bad or worse. You don't care if only some people die, or if the state is wiped out entirely. You don't care if there is food aid, or if Israel will be allowed to starve Gazans. You don't care if they die, as long as you get to feel like you wouldn't have caused it. Well, you would. We all have a choice-- one (mostly) equal vote-- and IT IS YOUR DUTY to make the right choice.
I'm struggling to parse your first paragraph, but I think I've got your gist. I do not think that withholding my vote is an endorsement for killing minorities. I do think that a vote for Biden is an endorsement of genocide. I was just trying to point out what a ridiculous accusation it was. I definitely don't expect pug to cop to endorsing genocide tho.
Again with this "ideal world" imperfect candidate bullshit. This is genocide we are talking about, not free college, or reparations, or fucking anything else.
Third paragraph pretty much more of the second. I don't care: stop the genocide first.
Fourth paragraph. This isn't about assuaging my conscience. I am responsible whether I vote or not. I am responsible because I continue to pay taxes that support terror around the world. I am responsible because I don't act more forcefully against the system that grinds up children. If you think I won't vote for a genocidaire to feel superior, you are totally misunderstanding me. Maybe it's your own conscience? All of what you say about Gaza is being done right now, by the guy you are exhorting me to vote for. The state is being wiped out, food aid isn't getting in, and Biden is allowing Israel to starve them. Are you worried that Trump is going to bomb their corpses?
I'm struggling to parse your first paragraph, but I think I've got your gist. I do not think that withholding my vote is an endorsement for killing minorities. I do think that a vote for Biden is an endorsement of genocide. I was just trying to point out what a ridiculous accusation it was. I definitely don't expect pug to cop to endorsing genocide tho.
Again with this "ideal world" imperfect candidate bullshit. This is genocide we are talking about, not free college, or reparations, or fucking anything else.
Third paragraph pretty much more of the second. I don't care: stop the genocide first.
Fourth paragraph. This isn't about assuaging my conscience. I am responsible whether I vote or not. I am responsible because I continue to pay taxes that support terror around the world. I am responsible because I don't act more forcefully against the system that grinds up children. If you think I won't vote for a genocidaire to feel superior, you are totally misunderstanding me. Maybe it's your own conscience? All of what you say about Gaza is being done right now, by the guy you are exhorting me to vote for. The state is being wiped out, food aid isn't getting in, and Biden is allowing Israel to starve them. Are you worried that Trump is going to bomb their corpses?
Well then what are you basing your vote on? It's not the material conditions of the Palestinians in Gaza, because you aren't picking the choice that aligns with that. You say it's not for yourself. Is it just on principle? I sincerely don't understand how you could hold the principle of Palestinian lives over the actual lives themselves.
I thought we built a whole supply pier to get food in more effectively? If you have more details, do tell, because I'm unsure of the details there, but I believe that was its purpose.
Aid is not getting in from the supply pier because we agreed that it would have to go through an Israeli checkpoint before distribution. Predictably, Israel is not allowing the aid to be distributed. Relying on the perpetrator of genocide to help you ameliorate the genocide is so stupid that it defies belief. Unless of course, the pretense is the point.
Aid is not getting in from the supply pier because we agreed that it would have to go through an Israeli checkpoint before distribution. Predictably, Israel is not allowing the aid to be distributed. Relying on the perpetrator of genocide to help you ameliorate the genocide is so stupid that it defies belief. Unless of course, the pretense is the point.
Oh really? That's incredibly lame