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The way things are.
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 13 May 2024
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When will it be considered anti-Semitic to be Islamophobic?
Jew is both a genealogical ethnicity and a religious designation. Islam is a different religion. So, never?
Semite: “a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs” So, how is it anti-semitic to be pro-palestine?
Yes, that is the etymology. Queer no longer means odd, and literally now also means figuratively.
Antisemitism is the belief or behavior hostile toward Jews just because they are Jewish. It may take the form of religious teachings that proclaim the inferiority of Jews, for instance, or political efforts to isolate, oppress, or otherwise injure them. It may also include prejudiced or stereotyped views about Jews.
It is not antisemitic to be pro-Palestine if you ask anyone other than Netanyahu. I know many Jews that resent him for using that term in defense of his actions, and the actions of the IDF.
Yeah it does. It has additional meanings, but it also retains that one.
Over my dead body! Just because an authority says something unacceptable is acceptable doesn't make it so. See also: the Israeli government committing genocide.
Correct.
Frustratingly, he's far from the only Zionist demagogue spreading that particular lie. It's become less effective recently, but it's been used to shut down any criticism of the apartheid regime for decades..
Maybe this isnt the right place to interject here: but yes, it now also means figuratively. Not because an authority said so, but because a sizable portion of native english speakers use it to mean figuratively. Thats how language works.
No, the authority said so. The OED regularly updates words and definitions in the dictionary based on colloquial usage. Literally also means figuratively according tho the oldest and most respected dictionary of the English language.
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/literally
The OED is, again, descriptive. They observe the change in meaning and update their description accordingly.
Correct. You’ve just described how the language you’re using has come to be. It evolves over time, and the OED is the most respected documenter of that change. We don’t use the same English that was standard a century ago. Wheat is colloquial now is the standard.
That's a textbook appeal to popularity fallacy. Just because many people make the same mistake doesn't mean it becomes correct.
The most popular electric car brand is Tesla. That doesn't mean that Teslas don't have the build quality of a 1980s Yugo and the price tag of a brand new Jaguar.
Don't use other people being stupid as an excuse to be stupid, is what I'm saying.
No, that is just how linguistics work. Language is decided descriptively, not prescriptively
Nope, both descriptivism and prescriptivism have merit, depending on the specific case.
A lot of people using a word as having the opposite meaning out of pure ignorance and/or carelessness is one case where prescriptivism is warranted.
I'll die on this fucking hill 😄
Literally?
No, figuratively.
And you will die on a linguistically untenable hill. Redefining words had happened throughout history and language hasnt died out and its not gotten worse.
Is this your way of warning me against going hiking in Wales? 😉
Of course not. That's literally impossible. Don't be fatuous, Jeffrey.
That's of mixed veracity at best.
This is a bad comparison. Language absolutely works as described in the previous comment. While certain trends such as using "literally" to mean "figuratively", are personally super annoying, that doesn't change the fact it's 100% correct when enough people do it.
So, arguable, anti-semitism is also bigotry toward Arabs, we just have to wait for the language to catch up, got it.
You have that reversed. Etymology is the study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history. The origin of Semite no longer applies to the word as it is used today.
The only reason it’s unique to Jews is because it’s both a form of racism and religious persecution. One can be genealogically an Ashkenazi Jew but not practice Judaism, or vice-versa.
You maybe missed the point that language evolved and eventually the definition may revert.
It’s possible. Language evolves. You’re likely not going to get it to catch on with root awareness. That’s hardly how English has evolved for the last century.
Root awareness worked in our high school latin class lol
Root awareness as well as prefixes and suffixes are the key to contextual understanding of English through its Latin and Romantic influence. Have you seen the words and alternate definitions that have been added to the dictionary in the last decade? They’re colloquial slang.
Here’s the first example I found from 2023:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/new-words-in-the-dictionary
You know, I haven’t looked at anything linguistics related since taking Latin in college, but I am roughly aware of there being a trend of new words being added for sometimes popular usage reasons as opposed to true neologisms.
Totally random, but one of my favorite things about studying Latin was finally understanding who/whose/which lol
Qui, quid, quod, cuem, cuius? I don’t know if I remember correctly myself. It was a nightmare to understand at first.
Yes, all dictionary updates are colloquially based. Meaning the word or alternate definition must be widely adopted in everyday language. All new admissions are based on what people use, not what words are “supposed to mean.”
Aye, those be the ones. Cuius almost even sounds like “whose” if you chop off the k sound. Pheweee, by the end of the 4th semester, I was drowning in different ablatives.
Well, I’m going to keep on popularizing retro-definitions and roots, unless you have a different recommendation in this specific situation?
Should I keep reminding people the Arabs and Jews are both Semites? Or would you argue that only Jews are Semitic?
No, you’re right. They’re both Semites. The thing is, the Jews have been persecuted for two millennia, to the point that it’s a massive part of their culture. Half of their holidays are in remembrance of moments of past persecution. They need a word to define it, since neither racism nor religious persecution applies. That’s the really shitty thing about Netanyahu wielding it in defense of his actions. Besides putting a target on the back of Jews around the world that have no connection to Zionism, it dilutes a concept that has plagued the Jews for all of their recorded history.
Sigh, like Bob Marley said: the -ism schism game.
Yeah, but they flip it. It’s not about the effects of persecution. They focus all of the stories and holidays on how unity and remembrance got them through the oppression. It’s actually kind of beautiful.
No doubt, thanks for sharing that; there is beauty in everything, if you know where to look. For all the invictive and hate lodged at Islam and Muslims, there is so much beauty in it, too.
American Christians are so threatened by Muslims, yet many don’t realize that The Bible is to the Torah, as the Quran is to the Bible. Muslims follow Jesus’s teachings too. Some might even say better than Christians. All three religions also follow a very similar story of origin found in the Torah.
Hate is commonly born from fear of the unknown and unfamiliar. I’m sure many would be surprised to learn of their similarities.
Final comment for ya (always happy to continue chatting in our deeper thread though - that was lovely).
A lot of people conflate Islam with Arab, nowadays (maybe you’ve heard of brown-folks be described as Islamics before, for example)
So, maybe someday?
if the dictionary ever updates Islam to mean also mean “a Muslim”.
Oxford defines a Muslim as a person who follows the religion of Islam. That’s accurate. The ethnicity of Palestinians would be Levantine, or Broadly Arab, according to genetics websites. Based on my comment, I think you may be comparing it to the ethnicity of Jews. There actually is a scientific difference, one is a religion, while the other is a religion and a genealogical ethnicity, and it absolutely can be confusing.
My ex and I both did DNA testing a few years ago. Hers came back as 99.8% Ashkenazi Jew. Her family emigrated from Russia when the Jews were chased out by the Bolsheviks. Some may consider that Russian ancestry. Scientifically, it’s not. She’s genealogically Jewish. It even has bearing on efficacy of certain medical treatments and hereditary health.
https://blog.23andme.com/articles/ashkenazi-ancestry-and-health
So someone could be genealogically Jewish and not practice Judaism, like 45% of Israeli Jews who are non-secular, or someone could practice Judaism without being of Jewish ethnicity. I hope that helps clarify some of the confusion.
Always down for a pleasant, healthy, and civil conversation. Sorry I fell asleep on you. Haha
if you feel like it, i'm actively moderating https://lemmy.sdf.org/c/humanrights and would love to see more people post there with relevant info and questions
When there is peace and cooperation between Jews, Arabs,and Persians.
That’s like saying that it will be stormy when there is lightning. Thanks.
Will they happen before or after resurrection of Aslan?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic–Jewish_relations
Interesting note, Moses is the most mentioned person in the entirety of the Quran.
The ways that Jews and Arabs have to get along are many. The time it will take? Only god knows.