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submitted 8 months ago by Stopthatgirl7@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

The most famous forms of Holocaust denial and revisionism tend to focus on Jews, casting doubt, for example, on how many were exterminated in the camps. But denying the impact the Nazis had on the other groups they targeted, including queer and trans people, disabled people and Romani people, is still Holocaust denial. Maybe someone should tell J.K. Rowling.

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[-] JoBo@feddit.uk 94 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

She's not a conservative, she's a liberal (in the political science sense of the word, not the USian synonym for leftist).

It's not 100% clear where Rowling's transphobia comes from. She certainly fits into the group of transphobic cis women who have been abused by cis men and concluded that all men are evil, including the ones that want to be women.

But there's also a dynamic which I think you can see with Graham Linehan and Dave Chappelle as well. Born into comfortable middle-class families, well-educated, never really thought about their bog-standard liberalism. Became extremely successful, became accustomed to near universal adoration, made a thoughtless transphobic comment/skit, received criticism and reacted with absolute fury at the idea they could possibly be prejudiced about anything. Because they're liberals, you see.

All three just keep digging that hole deeper rather than face up to the idea that maybe they got something wrong. Linehan's career is over (as is his marriage), Dave Chappelle is hanging on by a thread and flirting with the right, and Rowling doesn't give a shit because she's a billionaire and does not have to give a shit about anything at all.

[-] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 48 points 8 months ago

She's a blairist, and blairists are only slightly less morally bankrupt thatcherites.

For all their sins, a true European style liberal wouldn't want the state to tell you which restroom you use or what medical treatment they have access to - of course they also believe that trans people that were born into poor families don't deserve access to any medical treatment at all but that's another story.

[-] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 38 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

She's not a conservative, she's a liberal...

You are mixing definitions.

In fiscal policy, "conservatism" is opposite "liberalism".

In social policy, "conservatism" is opposite "progressivism".

No one here is accusing this homophobic bridge troll of having conservative fiscal policy.

She is socially conservative. And as such, she is a bigot. There can be no defense of her from anyone who is not a bigot.

[-] JoBo@feddit.uk 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

No. We're talking political categorisations, not the dictionary definition.

Conservatives are socially conservative and economically liberal.

Liberals are socially liberal and economically liberal.

Liberals have never had a problem abandoning their high-minded ideals when there were savages to civilise. Because liberalism has no analysis of power, and an absolute belief in the fundamental impossibility that they could be wrong about anything.

There's no doubt that she is shifting to the right, because they are fawning over her and she has no politics. See also Linehan and Chappelle. They were all bog-standard liberals before being criticised.

[-] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 22 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Chappelle was only liberal where racism was concerned. Otherwise he has been squarely neo-liberal when pushed into any political discussion. I believe Rowling has also always been neo-liberal.

Neo-liberals are conservatives. They toy with progressivism only when it benefits them. But, neo-liberals are otherwise conservatives with a bit more tact than typical conservatives.

[-] JoBo@feddit.uk 5 points 8 months ago

You're not wrong, except in believing that classical liberalism was ever any different.

[-] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago

I no longer confuse classical liberalism with progressivism. I was corrected on that topic a few years ago and learned my lesson.

I hate that conservatives in the U.S. worked so hard to use these terms interchangably. They've gleefully created chaos with their misuse of words as pejoratives and it makes having adult conversations so much more complicated. Which I suppose was their goal all along.

[-] JoBo@feddit.uk 3 points 8 months ago

I believe that's why "centrist" has become a popular substitute word, to sidestep the confusion.

[-] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

Don't get me started on centrists. What a wonderfully convenient way for a conservative to hide their shame in social settings! Ten years ago, that word meant nothing to me. Now, it just means "embarrassed conservative" to me.

[-] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 25 points 8 months ago

Her world views are absolutely conservative by today’s standard. Especially her views on gender roles. I mean have you read Harry Potter when you were younger? All important characters that actually shape the plot are male. She went out of her way to give Harry different father figures, believing that‘s what a boy needs when he grows up. But it‘s enough when his mother just loved him. Her female characters are far less layered than the male ones and more often than not reduced to mere tropes. The most prominent one being the pedantically strict auntie, a template which wich gets pasted a lot. There’s also the crazy auntie character and the tomboy. But that‘s pretty much it, really. Hermione herself ranges between overly strict and tomboy throughout the books and the only way she managed to escape this pattern is by… magic plastic surgery to shrink her front teeth. Rowling has clearly defined genders to be a black or white kind of thing for herself and she clearly outlined which gender has to fill what role.

[-] JoBo@feddit.uk 8 points 8 months ago

Totally agree with all of that. But I think the disagreement is based on what you think a liberal is. She is a New Labourite through and through.

British transphobia is as prevalent amongst middle-class, white liberals (centrists) as it is on the right; I'd say that they started it here.

Writers for The Guardian (US) wrote a letter protesting that bastion of liberalism's transphobic stance: Why we take issue with the Guardian’s stance on trans rights in the UK.

The political dividing line here is very, very different to that in the US.

[-] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 15 points 8 months ago

She’s not a conservative, she’s a liberal (in the political science sense of the word, not the USian synonym for leftist).

No leftist self-identifies as a liberal in the US.

Liberal and leftist are synonyms to the US right such that everyone left of them is considered a "liberal", and the term is usually used pejoratively.

[-] JoBo@feddit.uk 3 points 8 months ago

It's usually used perjoratively by the left, tbf.

In the established party-political sense, Liberal is now clear enough. But liberal as a term of political discourse is complex. It has been under regular and heavy attack from conservative positions, where the senses of lack of restraint and lack of discipline have been brought to bear, and also the sense of a (weak and sentimental) generosity. The sense of a lack of rigour has also been drawn on in intellectual disputes. Against this kind of attack, liberal has often been a group term for PROGRESSIVE or RADICAL (qq.v.) opinions, and is still clear in this sense, notably in USA. But liberal as a pejorative term has also been widely used by socialists and especially Marxists. This use shares the conservative sense of lack of rigour and of weak and sentimental beliefs. Thus far it is interpreted by liberals as a familiar complaint, and there is a special edge in their reply to socialists, that they are concerned with political freedom and that socialists are not. But this masks the most serious sense of the socialist use, which is the historically accurate observation that liberalism is a doctrine based on INDIVIDUALIST (q.v.) theories of man and society and is thus in fundamental conflict not only with SOCIALIST (q.v.) but with most strictly SOCIAL (q.v.) theories. The further observation, that liberalism is the highest form of thought developed within BOURGEOIS (q.v.) society and in terms of CAPITALISM (q.v.), is also relevant, for when liberal is not being used as a loose swear-word, it is to this mixture of liberating and limiting ideas that it is intended to refer. Liberalism is then a doctrine of certain necessary kinds of freedom but also, and essentially, a doctrine of possessive individualism.

Keywords --Raymond Williams

[-] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 6 points 8 months ago

Good point that is also true and it's the reason no leftist self-identifies as a liberal. However, my comment was in response to this statement:

She’s not a conservative, she’s a liberal (in the political science sense of the word, not the USian synonym for leftist).

My point (which you are supporting) is that leftist and liberal are not synonyms in the US except to people in the US who apply the term liberal wrongly.

[-] Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I think the trans thing started as a sincerely held conviction very much a long the lines as you're describing, and while this is and can only be utter speculation, I have a feeling a lot of what comes after as in Chappelle, probably with Linehan (but I don't really know anything about his case) and also other examples like the vaccines cause autism guy, I think these people are seeing an opportunity in their ostracism to keeping their profiles high and business opportunities as well.

I think it's a sort of a 'hung for a sheep as for a lamb' kind of logic where you mightn't really have had any particular common cause with a lot of conservative views, or fringe elements before, but their willingness to embrace and lionize you for this one particular stance creates a new audience and market for you just as others are shrinking. From there it makes sense to gradually dole out hints and allusions to more conservative talking points and just keep ratcheting it up piecemeal to keep that profile up. For this to work you have to eventually be less hinting and more direct and the positions have to be more extreme and on more and more diverse matters, even ones you probably never had any opinion on because this is a pathway to becoming a kind professional provocateur and shock jock.

[-] ABCDE@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

Graham Linehan

Wow, Linehan really dug in hard according to his Wiki.

[-] JoBo@feddit.uk 8 points 8 months ago

A really tragic trajectory. His work was genuinely great. And there isn't going to be any more of it (unless his new fascist pals persuade him to do a Leni Riefenstahl for them).

[-] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 8 months ago

HBomberGuy’s Donkey Kong 64 “Fuck You Graham” nightmare stream for trans rights was absolutely marvelous

For some feminists, especially older ones, the transphobia comes from the long fight against the patriarchy and the feeling that men are trying to encroach on everything they fought for by becoming women. I had that explained to me by multiple (three) feminists in the last few years.

[-] JoBo@feddit.uk 10 points 8 months ago

Yes, that's the divide within 'radical feminism'. The trans-exclusionary TERFs and the trans-inclusionary TIRFs. They both start with "gender is a social construct" but the TERFs have somehow got from there to biological essentialism. They're a minority of a minority. But they tend to be middle-class so they make a lot of noise.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

They sound like pleasant people to be around

[-] fustigation769curtain@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Maybe she just has her own views and your tribalistic mind can't comprehend that?

I know what I'd put my money on.

[-] TheBat@lemmy.world 17 points 8 months ago

And her views are fucking hateful and stupid.

this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2024
528 points (100.0% liked)

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