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this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2024
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And what does the constitution say about who decides when someone has participated in an insurrection? Exact constitutional text please.
Are you really not aware that one of the primary jobs of Congress is to literally define what a crime is? That's what laws are. There is literally a statute (several actually) passed by Congress that does define what murder, fraud, and larceny are. That's the cornerstone of due process. A crime isn't a crime unless there is a law being broken. You have failed your constitution test.
And you are telling me that an actual amendment was passed concerning a crime that nobody seems to know exists or what it is or how to define it?
Where did I mention an amendment? The constitution gives Congress the ability to write laws. Those laws are not constitutional amendments or part of the Constitution in any way. They are part of the US criminal code. Well defined laws have been foundational to modern justice systems since at least the time of Hammurabi.
The constitution doesn't say who decides what qualifies as insurrection, so it is not at all clear that state courts have that authority. The federal government defines federal law, and state governments define state law. Likewise, federal courts adjudicate state law, and state courts adjudicate state law.
The amendment in question is in the Federal Constitution, not state constitutions. Therefore, defining what is or isn't an insurrection is a matter for federal lawmakers, and adjudicating guilt is a matter for federal courts.
Yes, this is pretty straightforward for anyone who understands how our legal system functions.
Of course this is all separate from the practical implications of allowing states to make up their own definitions of "insurrection" and arbitrarily remove Democrats from ballots. Given the Republican party's long history and recent escalation of underhanded tactics, it's a guarantee that this would be abused and, if you had your way, they would have the cover of a Supreme Court ruling to back it up. Just a reminder, there are a lot more red states than blue.
Read your argument above then read this response again. You are arguing that the court is overriding what the constitution says, then arguing that it doesn't matter that the constitution says nothing on the subject. Your mind is a really weird place.
That is the worst case of obtuse misreading ever. The Constitution is very clear on this. The SCOTUS is ignoring it and making up conditions that DO NOT EXIST.
Great. The constitution is clear. Super. Tell me where the constitution tells us who decides if an insurrection has occurred. Round round round we go.
Republicans say Biden must be removed from the ballot because he allows "open borders" allowing the country's enemies past the gate. Is that insurrection? Are they wrong? How do we know? Who decides?
Multiple times in this conversation you have used the "so what your saying..." construct with nonsense that I definitely did not say or imply. I'm not entertaining that anymore.
Here is an excerpt from the 14th
Does Biden's "open border policy" allow terrorists or foreign agents to sneak into the country? Is that not aid and comfort to our enemies?
Sure, you and I think that is a ridiculous interpretation, but will a judge in Mississippi? Do you really believe that the current Republican party wouldn't abuse the fuck out of this? Republicans started using that rhetoric the moment people started talking about applying it to Trump. This needs to be defined at the Federal level.
I am not giving them power. In red states, they are the power.
What the fuck are you on about now? This has nothing to do with prosecuting Trump and his conspirators. You seem to have me pigeonholed as a Trump supporter or something. I'm commenting on a single ruling on a subject that is just as likely to damage Biden as Trump.
Republicans say Biden is guilty of insurrection for allowing illegal aliens across the border, and will happily remove him from every ballot they can because of it. It's absolute bullshit of course, but Republicans aren't shy about passing bullshit or ruling based on bullshit. If that shit show sounds great to you, then you go ahead and override the court and send it to the states.
Yeah, I just cant wait to see what happens when everyone keeps taking down the roadblocks to fascism and then gets all surprised when they get a fascist government installed which can never be removed, so yeah, okay, you win: the SCOTUS was protecting Biden.
I don't know that they did it to protect Biden, but I know the Republicans have been maneuvering to make that play. That could just as easily be how fascism bypasses roadblocks.