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submitted 8 months ago by GiddyGap@lemm.ee to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[-] neptune@dmv.social 162 points 8 months ago

If Congress must act to re instate a candidate but almost must act to bar a candidate, why was the amendment written the way it was? Pretty stupid they want Congress to make the determination.

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 90 points 8 months ago

The dissenting opinion puts that into the spotlight. It really is dumb that they're saying even federal courts/administrative bodies can't make that determination.

[-] GoodbyeBlueMonday@startrek.website 3 points 8 months ago

dissent

So I went to read it and found there's no dissenting opinion, but a concurring one: but oddly, if you CTRL+F "dissent", their concurrence lights up for me. Tried it on two PDF readers, but maybe I'm losing grip on reality.

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Nah, it was a concurrence because they agreed that the case should be reversed. Their concurrence doesn't agree with what they went beyond reversing it though. I just don't have good legal language.

[-] GoodbyeBlueMonday@startrek.website 3 points 8 months ago

Sorry, I didn't articulate my thoughts well: I meant that when I CTRL+F'ed the PDF searching for "dissent", the second of three places in the PDF that it "finds" the word dissent is literally behind the word "concurring" in "SOTOMAYOR, KAGAN, and JACKSON, JJ., concurring in judgment" on page 15 of the PDF.

I also don't have legal training to dissect most of what's in there, but I find it interesting that dissent is embedded in the PDF behind the title to their opinion.

[-] anticolonialist@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

No one read beyond the insurrection clause, sec 5 of the 14th says only Congress can remove him

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 59 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Yet the Court continues on to resolve questions not before us. In a case involving no federal action whatsoever, the Court opines on how federal enforcement of Section 3 must proceed. Congress, the majority says, must enact legislation under Section 5 prescribing the procedures to “ ‘ “ascertain[ ] what particular individuals” ’ ” should be disqualified. Ante, at 5 (quoting Griffin’s Case, 11 F. Cas. 7, 26 (No. 5,815) (CC Va. 1869) (Chase, Circuit Justice)). These musings are as inadequately supported as they are gratuitous.

To start, nothing in Section 3’s text supports the majority’s view of how federal disqualification efforts must operate. Section 3 states simply that “[n]o person shall” holdcertain positions and offices if they are oathbreaking insurectionists. Amdt. 14. Nothing in that unequivocal bar suggests that implementing legislation enacted under Section 5 is “critical” (or, for that matter, what that word means in this context). Ante, at 5. In fact, the text cuts the opposite way. Section 3 provides that when an oathbreaking insurrectionist is disqualified, “Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.” It is hard to understand why the Constitution would require a congressional supermajority to remove a disqualification if a simple majority could nullify Section 3’s operation by repealing or declining to pass implementing legislation. Even petitioner’s lawyer acknowledged the “tension” in Section 3 that the majority’s view creates. See Tr. of Oral Arg. 31. Similarly, nothing else in the rest of the Fourteenth Amendment supports the majority’s view. Section 5 gives Congress the “power to enforce [the Amendment] by appropriate legislation.” Remedial legislation of any kind, however, is not required. All the Reconstruction Amendments (including the due process and equal protection guaranteesand prohibition of slavery) “are self-executing,” meaning that they do not depend on legislation. City of Boerne v. Flores, 521 U. S. 507, 524 (1997); see Civil Rights Cases, 109 U. S. 3, 20 (1883). Similarly, other constitutional rules of disqualification, like the two-term limit on the Presidency, do not require implementing legislation. See, e.g., Art. II, §1, cl. 5 (Presidential Qualifications); Amdt. 22 (Presidential Term Limits). Nor does the majority suggest otherwise.

[-] FunderPants@lemmy.ca 48 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The majority position doesn't have to make sense, they just needed to be the majority. This is the legal phase of fascism, they won't be held accountable. In the majority, 3 of them were appointed by Trump, 1 has an insurrectionist wife, this outcome was really never in doubt.

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

They couldn't get Barret to sign on with the majority on this one, but they still managed to squeeze it through. Guess it left too much of a bad taste in her mouth.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 10 points 8 months ago

Barrett's concurring opinion is just "I agree with everything they said, and also I'm so glad we could all agree on this". The concurring opinion from Sotomayor/Kagen/Jackson has actual substance to it.

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Oh I read it. It was more like "I don't agree with their reasoning, but can't we all just get along." As in, she wouldn't even touch what she didn't agree with even though it's obvious. She writes incredibly shitty opinions.

[-] FunderPants@lemmy.ca 5 points 8 months ago

She isn't there on her merits.

[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 16 points 8 months ago

It says only Congress can reinstate him. It says nothing about Congress removing anyone from candidacy, because the "shall" language is self-executing.

[-] Jimmyeatsausage@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Weird how "shall" means something totally different in the 2nd amendment than anywhere else in the document...those wacky founders!

[-] frezik@midwest.social 4 points 8 months ago

This is from the main opinion:

The Constitution empowers Congress to prescribe how those determinations should be made. The relevant provi- sion is Section 5, which enables Congress, subject of course to judicial review, to pass “appropriate legislation” to “en- force” the Fourteenth Amendment. See City of Boerne v. Flores, 521 U. S. 507, 536 (1997). Or as Senator Howard put it at the time the Amendment was framed, Section 5 “casts upon Congress the responsibility of seeing to it, for the future, that all the sections of the amendment are car- ried out in good faith.” Cong. Globe, 39th Cong., 1st Sess., at 2768

So they say Congress needs to pass legislation to enforce this, and that is the only way to take Trump off the ballot.

The concurring opinion from Sotomayor/Kagen/Jackson does not like this at all:

Although only an individual State’s action is at issue here, the majority opines on which federal actors can enforce Section 3, and how they must do so. The majority announces that a disqualification for insurrection can occur only when Congress enacts a particular kind of legislation pursuant to Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amend- ment. In doing so, the majority shuts the door on other po- tential means of federal enforcement. We cannot join an opinion that decides momentous and difficult issues unnec- essarily, and we therefore concur only in the judgment.

[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 7 points 8 months ago

Yep. I read section 5 for myself. It's a twisted way to read it that Congress is supposed to be the executor of the "shall" language in section 3, specifically through legislation. It just says Congress shall have the power to legislate the 14th Amendment. It does not say Congress shall legislate 14th amendment issues.

But that's kind of been their MO the whole time. "I don't wanna rule, so I'ma hide behind Congress and say it's their job."

[-] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 months ago

It seems pretty straightforward to argue congress needs to create a mechanism to label someone as having engaged in insurrection. All judges agreed a single state making that determination using their own rules isn't sufficient.

[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 1 points 8 months ago

I stand by what I said. They're hiding behind Congress instead of making a decision. They didn't seem to have a problem dusting off precedent from 150 years ago to make sweeping changes to how the country operates, before.

But now, when it comes to actually defending the self-executing portions of the Constitution, it's suddenly too hard, and it's Congress's job. Bunch of fucking cowards.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

No. It says -

The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Which is a repeating of the Constitution in the case of section 3, which says states administer elections unless there's a specific law from Congress. Section 5 uses no exclusionary language to say states cannot enforce the amendment.

this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2024
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