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Class War
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
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Russia attacks my country
"You know, that's how they do it, they make Russia feel like the big bad enemy you have to fight against"
Lmao WHAT?!? If they're literally attacking my country then of course I'm fighting to defend it??
An important detail to notice here is that a user calling themselves kusimulkku is likely to be writing this from Finland. Which may result in an important difference of perspective.
Finland is correct. Though I have no idea what sort of situation those other people assumed to warrant such a claim.
There is the danger of manufacturing consent.
https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/remember-maine-1898
Raising tensions then using an incident to light the touch paper.
Russian's at the border is one thing.
But the most likely "attack" on the US is going to be much smaller.
Note the Houthis attacking merchant ships. Under a US flag.
There are 2 options
or
Option 1 is an escalation.
Option 2 is not.
The US military is is an odd position. I'd defend Ukraine from Russia. I'd defend Palestine from Israel. I'd defend Israel from Palestine.
I wouldn't support an aggressor.
There is a moral obligation to support violence in that it must be a necessary defence.
Joining the US military we've grown up seeing the US as an aggressor continuously. Supporting aggressors, not sanctioning them.
Then with Ukraine there is reluctance to help a defender.
A country that invaded nations at the drop of a hat 20 years ago has a recruitment problem. No surprises there.
If Russian troops are crossing the border then it's Russians who have manufactured the consent for violent action to drive them the fuck away.
I agree, but if that's the way the US, or any other NATO country, gets attacked I'll be surprised.
This is not the war that is proposed, it's a series of proxy wars. Just like Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, and the decades long conflict with Palestine.
Ask if you'll defend yourself, you'll say yes.
Ask if you'll defend others, the answer is usually "it depends".
Ask if you'll go fight in a proxy war which protects largely corporate interests, you'll say no.
Joining the American military is saying yes to all 3. That's the recruitment issue going on there.
Well the whole point of NATO is that hopefully Russia wouldn't dare. Let's hope they'll not as fucking dumb and insane as they at times seem. But in any case, it was just a hypothetical. If Russia attacks here, I'd definitely fight in the WW3.
If there ever is a WW3 that can't be dealt with diplomatically, MAD is the result.
Not worth fighting, better to run and hide as the missiles fly.
Not necessarily. It could be like chemical weapons and WW2. Everyone had them nobody wanted to start using them. But in any case, I just offered a scenario where I'd be fighting. It's not necessarily the most likely one.
If Russia attacks the US, our government would try to use that as a recruitment tool, and would probably succeed.
Meanwhile the majority of us would be cheering on the Alaskan citizens that are armed for wildlife that would stop a T-70 in its tracks, to say nothing of the poor Russian conscripts.
Nobody look up what Finland was doing in the 1930s.
Why is that relevant
😎
You need to be clearer about what point you're trying to make or the reader has to choose for you. What I'm getting is
The current elections in Finland are advancing a large number of far-right ethno-nationalist party leaders. Even the relationship between the Finns and Ukrainians is strained as a result. Case in point Finland refusing to extradite a Russian neo-Nazi terrorist to the Ukraine.
The strain of Finnish white nationalism that's been cultivated in the country for the last twenty years isn't strictly anti-Russian. It is far more centered around Finnish ethnic supremacy and the need to reassert itself as a regional power.
Look mate, all I'm saying is that Russia is saying the same things to their citizens. And Germans were saying the same things to theirs. And the Pope was saying the same things to the crusaders.
Likewise, a country is just imaginary, made by the rich to separate who can exploit the people in a specific geography. By all means, fight for it, but just know you're being played.
Russia literally attack my country, Russian soldiers are pouring over the border, I'm about to join to defend it
"You know Pope told the same thing to crusaders, besides countries are imaginary, why do you care if you live in your own country or as part of Russia under Putin. You are just being played."
Lmao, you people can't be serious, this is beyond fucking stupid
Aight mate, you do you.
wants to defend my country from Russia literally attacking and trying to invade it
"You do you mate"
I'm in awe. This has been the best exchange I've had in quite some while. I'm almost too flabbergasted to laugh
I'm just glad you get so much excitement out of my 5 words reply.
I was talking about the whole exchange though but those five words were good too
It's alright mate, feel free to go die in a ditch so that the Finnish capitalists get to stay in power. It's your human birthright to die for someone else's 3rd yacht.
Dunno about anyone's yacht but we Finns just don't want to be under Russian rule and would be fighting against that.
Tbh I do prefer Finnish capitalism with democracy and freedom for us Finns to decide our own matters to being subjugated under Russian dictatorship and their oligarchic capitalism. Seems like the lesser of two weevils.
Tankie lmao. Go suck putins asshole dry
Lol imagine thinking I'm a tankie. I'm just saying that the meme applies every time.
You seem to think there's no difference between Finnish democratic capitalists in power and Russian oligarchical capitalists in power.
I am saying that everyone government is presenting themselves as the good guys and their geopolitical opponents as the bad guys. Y'all somehow think that this time only you're impervious to it. Much like everyone else who in the history of humankind who got convinced to die for some king, lord or politician.
I couldn't care less who the party or politician actually is. I care about what happens to vulnerable people in their regimes, and what rights the people have and quality of living.
The US is not perfect for instance, but I can say whatever I want about it and Biden and Trump on Lemmy. The same is not true for every person with every country.
I feel dumber for having read this comment.
What makes you think Russia will attack your country?
I'm not sure if you misunderstood the discussion but this is what I wrote (bolded for emphasis)
I'm saying that if that were to happen, then I'd fight in the WW3.
What if Australia invaded your country? Obviously the if is because you consider it a possibility.
I would defend it.
Not how hypotheticals work but it obviously is a possibility.
Ehhh... Not really. The one thing that the US has over every other nation currently is its deep water Navy. We could project power like that, and have done so for about 80 years now.... China is the only nation that is even building a deep water Navy, but they have yet to attempt to project power past one of their neighbors.
Australia has literally zero chance to invade Finland no matter how much shit talking the Russians blame on Finland.
I was saying Russian invasion was a possibility. I guess Australia true in the sense that it's not literally impossible, but of course out of the two, one is a bit more possible.
Found the Russia apologist. Obviously Russia was used as an example country because they are actively and illegally invading Ukraine right the fuck now, while threatening to invade the rest of eastern Europe.
And, funnily enough, Alaska. I almost want to see them try that shit.
Ukraine, Crimea, Georgia....
Pretty soon they'll be invading Canada, huh?
Why? What difference edoes it make to you who runs the joint?
It makes a huge difference if I live under democracy in Finland or under Putin in Russia. What the fuck are you smoking
To quote the Greatest President of My Generatoin "We need to fight them over there so we won't be fighting them over here."
That's why I'm enlisting in the Ukrainian National Guard and I hope you'll all join me.
I'm fine with just sending money and materiel to support the Ukrainian efforts. I'm hoping to avoid fighting in a war.