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this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
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Voting will move the party left, if people vote for that. But they don't because leftists are a tiny, fringe political minority. That's why Biden is in office and not Bernie.
Can't wait to prove you wrong at the democratic primary oh wait shit we're not really doing one of those for some reason
LOL. we already had one. Bernie lost... twice I might add. I hope another person like Bernie runs after Biden's, or Trump's :(, 2nd term because even Bernie himself helped talk about things Democrats didn't talk about (healthcare for all for instance).
You are missing the entire point..
You're doing exactly what you accuse the other side of doing while accepting the 1%'s bullshit argument that there is literally no hope of actual change.
Next 4 years, Next 4 years, Next 4 years, almost there guys don't worry about it.
Picking the better of 2 evils is not democracy.
From your(and my) perspective it's the better of two evils, there are plenty of average democrats that chose Biden on the merits.
I've literally never met anyone in real life who actually supports Biden, I'm not saying they don't exist, just that he doesn't exactly get people excited to vote, it's literally just "not Trump"
Yet he got more votes than Bernie. So people definitely like Biden more.
Ignore the fact that the DNC is a private org and can pick anybody regardless of vote counts.
But did they do that?
Yes, they actively promoted vote counts including super delegates from day 1 in 2016. In no way was that primary fair. This included the actual vote manipulation in Navada.
Sources would be appreciated man.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-resigns-dnc-chair-emails-sanders
Thanks for the source! I'll check it out.
Lol there is hope for change. 4 and 8 years ago, Bernie could have been a candidate. There wasn't enough people that voted for him in either election, so Hilary and Biden took it. Now, you do need to wait 4 years because Biden is the incumbent, who historically have a good chance at winning. In 4 years, if people want progressive candidate, vote canvas and donate. If not enough people do, then that obviously means not enough people want s progressive candidate.
Bernie ~~lost~~ won then got told to eat a dick, and then his voters were told to eat a dick in court.
Then democrats blamed those voters for not voting dem after telling them all to fuck the fuck off.
Citation needed
What do you think would happen that would prove me wrong? A democratic primary is a great way to increase the chances of a Republican victory.
Running Biden is a great way to have a trump victory
Or it will make it worse. Its not 1976.
Voting will not move the party left. The only reason the dems are in power at all, is because the vast amounts of wealth of Capitalists support them. There's no bottom-up pressure. Even if Bernie was in office, he'd have to fight tooth and nail with the democrats to get things done, not just the Republicans.
We don't really know what it would be like to have Bernie in office, because he wasn't popular enough to get there. But I could imagine it would be hard for him, yes, because no one wants him to be President.
There is bottom up pressure. Clearly. Self-evidently. There could be more if people who don't want the Republicans in power actually made any kind of effort politically, rather than complained on Lemmy about unsubstantiated conspiracy theories that a cabal of spooky capitalists subvert the Democratic process so your vote doesn't matter.
The Dems are in power because they won the election, solely because more people voted for them than the Republicans. If you VOTE, you effect change.
People wanted Bernie, Biden was voted for during the primaries in states that went to Trump anyways. The DNC does not want Bernie, so even if he made it to the presidency he would not be able to enact change. Who you can vote for is picked by the wealthy who influence the media and government, Capitalists.
It is absolutely not an unsubstantiated conspiracy, it's a well-known and documented fact. Pretending that the democratic process within America is not hand-picked and chosen by large corporations and Capitalists is naive and unsubstantiated.
Some people wanted Bernie, most didn't. That's why he didn't win. You have no idea what the DNC wants. The DNC has no authority to try and sabotage a Sanders presidency, that's a wild thing to say. There were some emails 7 years ago and those people resigned. They're not going to rig it. Or ignore the vote.
If who you can vote for IS decided by the Evil Capitalists, how did Sanders get onto the ballot, then get millions of votes in 2016 & 2020? How did he run a campaign without a superpac, beating out millionaires with massive campaign funds?
I guess it's cool if you think politics doesn't matter because it's all a conspiracy, it just means your political beliefs have zero chance of getting anywhere.
Here is a good article on the hurdles Bernie had put in his way by the DNC.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201101090855/https://berniewouldhavelost.com/
You might as well be linking me to the Q board on 8chan. This guy is huffing litres of copium.
That's actually ahistorical, Bernie was fucked over in 2016 and was beating Hillary until superdelagates got involved. In 2020, Bernie beat Biden in most states that Biden beat Trump in, Biden only picked up steam when it came to red state primaries. The people want Bernie.
Did Bernie win, though? No. Again, superdelegates and careful design of the electoral process prevents anyone from actually rocking the boat.
Politics absolutely matters, elections at the federal level are loss prevention, and at the local level you can genuinely get Socialists into office. However, meaningful political change occurs when there's grassroots momentum, like the Civil Rights Movement and Black Panthers. Unionization is one of the best ways to force political change.
Please, feel free to continue mouthing off and putting words in my mouth, you can continue being a radlib and supporting the status quo like your life depends on it, unfortunately I'm not privledged enough to not advocate for meaningful change.
Ok I will continue 'mouthing off'.
Clinton won the popular vote. Bernie would have had to get nearly ALL the superdelegates to vote against the popular vote to win. All they did was cement Clinton's victory. His campaign also raised and spent more money.
I don't know where your reading of 2016 has come from. Is this just copium that Bernie didn't win? which part of the less votes from more money is the capitalist conspiracy?
And again, Biden beat Bernie even harder than Clinton did. People vote for who they want to be president. America doesn't want Bernie to be President.
And look at that, the popularity of Bernie has moved the Democrats further left.
It's crazy how you can be so wrong. The DNC colluded with Hillary against Bernie, it was proven in email leaks circa 2016. As for 2020, again, Biden won against Bernie in red states that went to Trump, Bernie beat Biden pretty handily in blue states.
Bernie hasn't pushed the dems meaningfully to the left, just the population. The DNC is just as Neoliberal as ever.
Again, keep mouthing off.
But he didn't win the popular vote in 2016 or 2020! What do you think that means? Yes obviously he beat Biden in the more left wing states, because he is more left wing. But because he is less popular, he lost overall. The DNC 'collusion' was some emails then the emailers resigned. When they weren't colluding, he lost even harder. They're not rigging elections. This is QAnon level shit. The Dems are meaningfully more left wing. That's such a blatantly, irrefutably obvious fact I don't know what to tell you. Look at the shit Biden has done, it did not happen in the Obama era.
You don't understand the process of primaries, I suppose, and again, Bernie won the states that ended up going to Biden. Bernie would've won regardless, likely winning what Hillary lost.
It's a known fact the DNC colluded, there's mountains of evidence. The dems are not more meaningfully left wing, Biden hasn't pushed America any closer to Socialism, lmao.
Keep mouthing off, it's funny.
Well you're refusing to educate me if I am wrong. Point to a single action the DNC took that cost Bernie the election. Biden and Clinton got more votes so won. Why are you hung up on some states?
I'm not sure why you keep instructing me to mouth off, kinda weird.
I showed you, the DNC collaborated with Hillary. Read up on that collaboration behind closed doors.
I'm hung up on Biden winning states that didn't matter for the general election because they went to Trump anyways. Biden ran on being the "safe" option even though Bernie was polling better.
The fact is, the DNC won't move left because they need donations from wealthy Capitalists.
So your problem is that we should only care about the votes of Democrats in safe blue states? Is the idea we shouldn't count the votes of Democrats in red states in the primaries? This makes no sense.
Yeah the DNC being meaningfully anti Bernie is QAnon level conspiracy nonsense. At a basic level of analysis it makes no sense. I've read up on it plenty and it only confirms this. Ideological, partisan nonsense that is honestly embarrassing for the left wing.
I would vote Bernie and I think he should have been President. But he didn't get the fucking votes so he isn't. Tough luck.
Nah, you just don't understand primaries nor do you understand electoralism, and dismissing it at QAnon bullshit because reality disagrees with you just proves me right.
Ha ok then. You always know someone has it right when they say you're wrong, but now how.
I already told you. Bernie would've beaten Trump regardless, Biden was only popular in states that ended up going to Trump, and carried that momentum through the Primary process. It's likely that Bernie would've won flat out had the primaries been simultaneous, plus there's the previous DNC fuckery you keep walking back and pretending didn't exist.
All of that is to say that the DNC and major news outlets absolutely massage the narrative in favor of the most bland and benign Capitalist they can, in this case Biden, despite Bernies policies being far more popular.
It's quite simple, and no matter how hard you defend the current system, it's fucked regardless and designed to change as little as possible.
This is basically just paragraphs of cope at this point. Trump people have a similar set of arguments. "The mainstream media blah blah blah", "The SYSTEM is fucked", "the DNC blah blah blah" same shit, different coloured hat. If only you guys had the grace of Sanders himself to know when you lost.
None of this has any substance. What-ifs, would-haves, and conspiracy.
I really don't know what to tell you, you only screech and squawk without actually countering anything I've brought up. You call it "cope" when your only tactic is to compare what I'm saying to Trump supporters. Guess radlibs are gonna radlib, I suppose.
I outlined all already but you're delusional so I'm just memeing now.
You didn't, lmao. You're akin to a flat-earther, thinking that money doesn't control politics. Just look up the Koch Brothers and see what they've done to destroy the minds of American voters.
It's a good job Bernie's campaign raised more of it than Clinton's then
You do realize that I never said it was about which campaign raised the most money, correct? Clinton was an establishment dem and had the rest of the establishment dems behind her, who in turn were bought by large Capitalists in one way or another.
You're legitimately a flat-earther, believing that every election is sacred and that the media and who's funding the media and who's funding political parties doesn't matter.
Again, check out the Heritage Foundation, the Koch Brothers, the entire Oil industry, and so forth.
Ok! Together we'll overthrow these awful capitalists! I'd say we should give two votes to every leftist, but they still probably wouldn't use them lol
Maybe one day you'll say something of substance. For what its worth, leftists absolutely do vote, the parties do not reflect the will of the people.
This attitude right here?
Exactly why the orange won.
The MIC picks, not us.
END THE MIC
I have been to every size of town and city all over the US and it doesn't appear leftists a fringe minority. The people that accurately labels themselves as a leftist is probably a minority, but many many people are adherents of left wing views, but with no accessible way to push or vote for their ideals. People will support socialist policies without realizing as well, like guaranteeing healthcare or housing for all. People's ideas of politics are all over the place in the US.
People when polled like the idea of healthcare and housing for all, but support drops off rapidly when you start getting into the weeds of polling actual policy. At the end of the day, coherent 'leftists' i.e. socialist adjacent people are a small fraction of the population, and a small fraction of those people would ever go further than larping or complaining on Lemmy.
The fact is there is next to zero political will for true left wing views to enter the stage, and has been shown repeatedly in the multiple resounding defeats candidates like Bernie have suffered, who isn't even particularly radical. It's going to be a long time and a lot of work to get a seat at the table for anything like that, and basically no one is putting that work in productively.
The other option some leftists like the idea of is revolution, but if they can't leave their bedrooms to participate at the basic level in this system, there is no chance they'll put the work in to overthrow it.