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It astounds me that people are both-siding this when one side are blatant, actual fascists.
It’s not vanilla vs chocolate, it’s vanilla vs ground roach and arsenic parfait.
I’m convinced that anyone equivocating them in 2024 either are in denial that the GOP was murdered and fascists are wearing its skin, or are actively promoting apathy in order to help them.
We need to push back hard against this narrative because, when fascism is on your doorstep, there is no such thing as moral neutrality.
>when one side are blatant, actual fascists.
that's the problem. the actual fascists are on both sides.
Please provide some examples.
I’m very interested in seeing the Democrats who are making overwhelming displays of nationalism that attract actual fascists (which democratic rallies are full of Nazi t-shirts and waving Nazi flags?).
Which Democrats are making thinly-veiled threats of genocide, demonising marginalised groups, and openly calling for concentration camps?
Do you have examples of Democrats banning books and passing laws that outlaw the teaching of objective history and science? Or at least calling objective reporting fake news, as they funnel their supporters to debunked tabloid outlets instead?
Which Democrats are pushing their religion as the only true authority? Where are Democrats trying to force their religion into social and legal policy?
Which Democrats have been attacking education and the arts as a corrupting and demonic influence on society? Which of them have called for legislation to stop the subversive influence of Sesame Street and Mr Potato head, as a random and hypothetical example?
I’d also love examples of Democrats trying to criminalise women’s rights, to the point that women are turned into walking coffins.
Which Democrats have vowed to jail their political opponents?
Finally, which Democrats have refused to concede elections, claiming they’re rigged and false? Which have tried to undermine public trust in democracy, to the point of telling people voting is pointless?
If you’re going to make a claim like that, you need to be able to back it up with evidence. I can do that for every single point of fascism that my questions are obviously based upon, and I’ll bet you can anticipate my examples without me needing to link them. It’s all very public and open in the GOP.
Final question: does your claim come from an understanding of real fascism, or are you using ‘fascism’ to mean ‘things I don’t like’.
One of those is wrong but relatively benign, and the other always leads to genocide.
>anyone equivocating
they don't need to be equal to both have fascists and both be unacceptable
Please see my reply to your other comment.
I’m not convinced you understand what fascism truly is and why it’s so dangerous. It’s not just things we don’t like politically – it’s a specific far right ideology that always leads to genocide. If you’re actually interested in politics, I beg you to learn what this means.
>I’m not convinced you understand what fascism truly is and why it’s so dangerous. It’s not just things we don’t like politically – it’s a specific far right ideology that always leads to genocide.
the absolute irony
You just keep giving me examples of how you don’t actually understand what fascism means.
I don’t agree with Biden either. I’m farther left than most democrats. But there’s a vast difference here, and you’re either being wilfully ignorant or divisive on purpose. I’m not able to take you seriously until you address the points in my other comment.
>I’m not able to take you seriously until you address the points in my other comment.
i did. you just didn't like it.
No you didn’t. Go back through that list and actually address each point, rather than throwing out a few examples that have little to do with anything I said.
Again, I agree that stuff is bad, but it’s not fascism. Fascism is a specific far-right ideology with specific hallmarks, it’s not just ‘shitty policy I don’t agree with’.
> Go back through that list and actually address each point,
don't be petulant.
Don’t be reductive.
# Don’t be reductive.
# Don’t be petulant.
>Go back through that list and actually address each point
literally demanding i deal with a gish gallop.
no.
It wasn’t a Gish gallop. It was a simple list of the hallmarks of fascism, with examples for each. It was stupidly easy to do, and it should be just as easy for you to rebut if your point has merit.
> it should be just as easy for you to rebut if your point has merit.
your framing is fallacious. of course there are differences between the republicans and democrats in rhetoric and policy, but both of them are fascist.
How, exactly? Your point was both sides are fascist. I disagreed, with the counterpoint that fascism means x, providing examples of republican fascism, and asking for examples of democrat fascism.
I’m challenging you to back up your original thesis. That’s literally how debate works.
>That’s literally how debate works.
i'm not here to debate.
Then why are you arguing in a politics forum meant for that?
Good lord.
i don't care for argument at all. at any point you could have stopped.
i just want to stop the advance of fascism and discredit its enablers.
Wait – then why are you both-siding fascism?
What?!
i thought you were done.
>How, exactly?
i explain in the second half of the comment. i don't want to spoil the anticipation for you.
Restating your original incorrect thesis does not explain anything.
‘They’re both fascist.’
‘No they’re not, and here’s why, with examples. Please prove your point.’
‘Yes they are.’ <— this is not proof.
>I agree that stuff is bad, but it’s not fascism.
wrong.
No u.
Since we’re apparently at that level of discussion now.
>You just keep giving me examples of how you don’t actually understand what fascism means.
someone should take your keyboard and replace it with a mirror
So you don’t have a reasonable argument, then. Ad hominem is a weak escape hatch.
it's not ad hominem. it's tu quoque.
Tomato tomahto. Attacking the person rather than the point is weak.
i'm saying that you don't understand the topic, and you're telling me the same thing. that's hardly attacking the person.
I linked the actual definition and asked you for evidence to support your point, which you haven’t provided.
If you know so much more than me, please prove me wrong. Personal attacks don’t make you seem like you know what you’re talking about.
>>I linked the actual definition and asked you for evidence to support your point, which you haven’t provided.
yes, i did. you just don't like it.
No you didn’t. This has become tiresome.
I’ll make it simpler for you: please go through the 14 points of fascism and give an example for each that show the Democrats are trying to enact it.
It shouldn’t be hard. I did it for the GOP without even trying.
>I’ll make it simpler for you: please go through the 14 points of fascism and give an example for each that show the Democrats are trying to enact it.
the republicans don't hit all 14, either. but that doesn't make them any less fascist.
The Republicans hit every point possible without actually having full power, and they’ve vowed to enact the couple of others as soon as they get the chance. It’s literally in their platform.
Again, how many can you give examples for with the Democrats? I’m still waiting.
>I’m still waiting.
no, you're not. i already gave enough to meet the bar for fascism. you just don't like it.
Okay, then treat me like I don’t understand how words work. Show me how your examples meet the definition of fascism like I’m five. I had the courtesy to do that for you.
>treat me like I don’t understand how words work
that's your tactic. i won't stoop to that.
You’re seriously kidding me.
No, I’m offering to stoop to your level. If you want to talk to me in infantile terms, then let’s do that.
I’m done here. You’re incapable of proving your point, so you’ve devolved this conversation to the point of juvenile tactics. I come here for intelligent debate, and you don’t seem to want that, so I’m out.
>I had the courtesy to do that for you.
condescension isn't courtesy.
You started it.
>This has become tiresome.
refusing to learn seems exhausting. you should take a break.
This is almost fun. Almost.
>when fascism is on your doorstep, there is no such thing as moral neutrality.
i couldn't agree more