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this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2024
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I voted for Biden to stop fascism and now he's a genocide collaborator! Would Trump be worse? Maybe - it's unclear, because at least Democrats would oppose Trump. Trump saw the largest protest movement in American history, Trump inspires Democrats to actually ask for more, Trump will further isolate America (and Israel) geopolitically, it's hard to predict.
I'm not voting for him, I'm actually voting Democrat down ticket, but if he wins it's not the end of the world. It's an opportunity.
In the meantime? Withholding my vote is literally the only way I can exert pressure on Biden. I have a moral obligation to oppose genocide. I won't vote for it. If he's smart he'll reverse course on Israel to save his campaign and this will all be moot. Why is Biden helping Trump win?
You don't need to exert pressure on Biden. You need to help push the entire system back to the left. When Democrats in general are in government, it allows more room for further left candidates. Just like how electing Republicans made room for the Tea Party and the MAGA crazies. If the window had been more toward the left, they'd have been outside the Republican party.
I'm voting Democrat down ticket. I'm just not voting for genocide Joe.
That's the only way I can exert any pressure on him, and I don't have to wait a year for that pressure to manifest. If enough Democrats had the courage to stand up to Biden he'd be forced to change his policies. Instead, you are all choosing to be complicit in genocide.
Not voting is a valid choice, one that says you're okay with either candidate winning. And that is being complicit with genocide. If you're not okay with that, vote.
If you don't want to wait a year, you can call, write, protest, and donate to groups to do those things on your behalf. But to throw away your vote is incredibly short-sighted.
I'm voting for Democrats down ticket, hardly throwing it away. I'm just not voting for any pro-genocide candidates.
And if Biden is smart, he'll see how much support he's losing and change his policy towards Israel.
Biden is an empty suit. If the party tells him to change, he'll change.
Alternatively, Trump wins and everything gets even shittier, and we lose even the possibility for things to get better.
I like how you found yourself being down voted the moment you acknowledged what a piss poor excuse for "Democracy" this is.
Yup. But in the choice of who to vote for president, there's the establishment candidate, or the "dictator for a day" candidate. Or there's not voting, which is saying "yes, either of those are okay". One of those things has the chance of making progress, and it should be obvious.
What fucking progress my guy? Look around.
Insulin prices are lower now, a bunch of student loans are being forgiven. I know it's not the single payer collectivism we'd all like but to say it's not progress at all is a bit hyperbolic.
If we've progressed over the last 20 years then what are you panicking about? You can't tell me we've made progress while also telling me our Democracy is less secure than it was 20 years ago.
Sure I can. We've made progress in some areas but we have a long way to go. Crying because you didn't get everything you wanted is a republican move, you have to agitate and work for what you want if you actually want it. Shitposting isn't going to do much. You act like 20 years is a long time, that's just a couple election cycles lol. How long do you think the right-wing has been angling for their end goals?
I'm not crying. I'm just not showing up to vote. Are you unable to see the difference? Sounds to me like you don't understand how Democracy works. Sounds to me like you're the one crying because I won't support your garbage candidate.
I'm agitating you, neoliberals, the DNC, Democrat politicians and Biden by not voting for Biden. It's up to all of you to decide to listen or not. If you don't want to listen fine, ignore me. If you want my vote fucking pay attention. Make a choice.
I certainly hope you are comrade but I suspect you're just sitting at home screeching online, indignance feels good and the work is hard.
People like you have such an inflated sense of your own efforts. Here's a newsflash for you: Most people are working hard.
I have phone banked, canvassed, donated and voted. You're free to keep deluding yourself into dismissing everyone who doesn't cheer for your pro-corporate trash candidate is just a lazy or a whiner. But after 2016 you really have no excuse for your continued ignorance. If you don't need our votes ignore us. If you do need our votes then fucking pay attention when we're speaking. Make a choice.
So what I'm getting from this is you're a disgruntled Berniebro?
And the Party would tell him to change if the Party knew they'd lose the presidency.
Do you think the Party would rather Trump win than stop supporting Israel? I doubt that.
They know they're not going to lose on this issue, though, because anyone who seriously evaluates the election has come to the same conclusion that I already said: a Trump victory is the worst outcome. Again, you'll have to put pressure on the party through other means, just one of which is electing more leftist downballot candidates.
Okay, so my vote is irrelevant, got it. I've asked elsewhere and I'll ask it here: why are you crawling up my dick about it? If my presidential vote doesn't matter because "they're not going to lose on this issue" then I can comfortably just leave that spot blank.
Which I'm doing.
Exactly these people talk out of both sides of their mouths. On the one hand we don't matter, on the other we're responsible for HRC losing in 2016. It's so fucking pathetic.
They may actually lose on this issue. Democrats rely pretty heavily on younger voters and a lot of the really young voters, Zoomers, are making this a do or die issue, even though both of our only two parties with any chance of winning will support the genocide regardless.
I don’t understand why people think the democrats losing to someone farther right would make them move left. Doesn’t it make more sense they’d move to the right since that’s what more voters wanted?
So you admit Democrats are just fascist light? Sounds like the fight is over then. We lost.
That’s not what I said. Moderate dems need to lose to progressives and not to conservatives to move the party left.
It'll never happen. Too many primary voters are specifically out to fuck over leftist and progressives. Then they turn around and cry foul when we refuse to show up in the general. Fuck them.
Maybe not every democrat is a progressive and that’s why they vote against them? That’s democracy, not everyone agrees with you and sometimes you don’t get your way. Gotta work to change people’s mind and not just say fuck ‘em.
Then they're responsible for getting their piece of shit candidate elected in the general.
They won't. And I'm not going to keep propping up their procorporate trash candidate. If they want my vote they'll have to hold their nose in the primaries and vote for someone more progressive or leftist than they'd like.
Don't like it? That’s democracy, not everyone agrees with you and sometimes you don’t get your way.
The solution to our choices being a centrist and a literal fascist isn't to push the Overton window even further right. Such thinking is beyond naive.
What centrist? All I see are two fascists, because genocide sure as fuck isn't centrist.
You don't have to be fascist to be genocidal. The two just tend to overlap.