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this post was submitted on 31 Dec 2023
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Being forced to risk your life for something you don't believe in won't create a feeling of unity.
So you don't believe in fighting against invasion by a foregin power?
In what reality would Germany ever get invaded and not deserve it?
Why do you think they deserve it now?
They're sending weapons to Saudi Arabia and Israel. They put sanctions on Afghanistan that are causing a famine. They're funding Frontex, which kills migrants in the Mediterranean and those who make it get put into concentration camps. And that's just some of it. The German government are war criminals and serial human rights abusers. Anyone who takes up arms to defend these people is complicit.
And don't forget Germany never underwent denazification
While I don't know how accurate this statement is, I do wonder how you would go about doing it now, so far after the war.
Where would you even start?
What criteria would you use to determine the nazi index of every person, what index value would be the threashhold, who would decide on who is nazi and who is nice.
It would be very easy just take people who use to be in the party and kick them out like they should have at the get-go. Not that it matters because they have very little animus to do so.
Do the Nazi party still exist in germany?
I believe there's a party with a lot of the same values fighting to be allowed onto the ballots.
That’s not the point. Nazi officials, generals and party members were integrated into the nascent west German state and NATO right after WW2. Explicitly by the US to help “fight communism”. Cause you know, the best anti-communists are the Nazis…
Oh, I know that parts of Germany didn't go through denazification, but my question was more about how to solve that problem today.
Ok, I agree with ypu on some of the points, and I can see why you disagree with the actions of the military
So you don't believe in freedom? Being forced by anyone to give your life for something is slavery.
I absolutely believe in freedom, but I see mandatory military service as a way of supporting the freedom for the rest of the population.
You do your service and hand it off to the next guy, you get skills and training, the country gets huge number of people who know the basics in a real situation.
There are also plenty of tasks in the military that does not require weapons or killing, in a disaster the services are used to support the civilian society, clearing roads, fighting fires, building temporary bridges, distributing water/food/shelter, providing emergency healthcare, setting up communications.
BTW, you use a very narrow definition of slavery.
I'm sure someone in the military is tasked with cooking food for the whole army but in order to teach someone to prepare a meal you don't put them through mandatory military service which main goal is to bake soldiers capable of shooting on command.
If you believe in forcing everyone with jail as a penalty to learn how to kill people and to obey superior orders you have a narrow definition of freedom.
Freedom is perpetuated through liberty not through constraints
You mention freedom a lot in comparison to military service, but in no society are you completely free, you have laws to follow and you have taxes to pay, so the freedom argument falls a bit flat when you use it so often.
I see military service similar to a tax bill, since if no one wants to do it, the need doesn't go away, it is still needed, and mandatory military service is s good way to solve it.
You have taxes to pay because someone say so and is forcing everyone with force to pay. If you don't pay taxes you get labelled as a criminal and the guards come pick you and escort you to jail, even if the tax you don't want to pay is unjust. If no one wanted to join the military you would have no wars to begin with, russia and israel which are two countries waging war and currently invading another country both have mandatory military service which you get punish if you don't attend.
People can fight for freedom without being forced through a course that aims at taking away their individuality and self-will to turn them into checkers at rulers commands.
If you think that individual freedom fighters are as effective as an army with a command structure, then you are just plain wrong, removing individuallity during fighting is a feature not a bug, obviously individual soldier's talents are an asset and should be used by the military as far as practical, but in the end a soldier is a standardized tool that fit a specific criteria, else they would not be as effective.
If your goal is freedom an army of people who's individuallity has been removed won't get you an inch close to it. If you look around yourself no actual army brings up freedom but war around the globe.
Mandatory military service does not strip the individuallity off of a person, sure while in the military you loose a bit of individuallity, but once you leave the military you get it back.
You are contradicting yourself
There's no invasion?
Correct, I am glad you sre keeping up!
My question was hypothetical.
Your question was nonsensical
I disagree.