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this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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THE POLICE PROBLEM
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The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.
When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.
When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."
When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.
Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.
The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.
All this is a path to a police state.
In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.
Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.
That's the solution.
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Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.
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RULES
① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.
② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.
③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.
④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.
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ALLIES
• r/ACAB
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INFO
• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions
• Cops aren't supposed to be smart
• Killings by law enforcement in Canada
• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom
• Killings by law enforcement in the United States
• Know your rights: Filming the police
• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)
• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.
• Police lie under oath, a lot
• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak
• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street
• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States
• When the police knock on your door
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ORGANIZATIONS
• NAACP
• National Police Accountability Project
• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Hell of a lot to unpack here, but I'll throw something out that many might not have seen.
A self-defense gun is not a magic kill machine. Nor is it a, "Get off me!" talisman. And it goes without saying a gun is certainly not a, "Look at my gun and go away!" option. Pulling a gun on another human being says, "I intend to kill you to stop what you're doing." Pulling a gun is the end of ALL options. Full stop.
All that to say, Laramore was not prepared to kill anyone with 2 rounds in his gun. He should never have picked it up if he wasn't trained and prepared for self-defense. Guns are not fucking toys, and I have a solid feeling Laramore thought, well... whatever he thought was clearly wrong.
No, this is not victim blaming, just an observation that hopefully reaches anyone with a gun on their nightstand or thinking about getting one.
Yes, he would likely be facing life in a concrete and steel box had he prevailed. Which is exactly the result my conceal carry instructor taught. "If you shoot another person, you better have made the decision that life in prison was the better alternative. Because it may well work out that way."
Are you an episode of The Rifleman? Pulling and pointing a gun is not an announcement that “I intend to kill you to stop what you’re doing.” It's announcement that you're willing, which is not the same. Unless you're immediately squeezing the trigger, pointing a gun is: “Look at my gun and go away!”
The difference between the two is simply a squeeze of the finger, which happens under a second. If the person on the other side of the gun does not respond as if the gun pointed at them will immediately be fired, they could die if they presume it's just a "warning", and have a natural right to self defense.
Real life isn't television.
Your point remains invisible to me. What are you saying with lines like,
?
After pulling a gun, numerous options remain.
lmao you just replied to your own comment not understanding what you wrote. We're done here.
My god no. If you go as far as to draw, your intent is to kill, or you don't draw, or show. (In fact, just waving a gun about is considered "brandishing" and may be illegal where you live.)
Violence happens in fractions of a second. You don't get to announce your intentions and see what happens next.
If you don't get that, all good! But please don't carry a gun.
I am a peaceful man because I choose peace. If you don't have the choice, you are merely harmless.
Still trying, but still not seeing what you're saying.
I've had guns pointed at me but not been shot. The intent wasn't to shoot me or kill me. The intent was to get my attention. It worked. I'm still alive, and that's a valid purpose for drawing a gun.
To be clear, I'm not talking about this incident, only talking about pulling and pointing a gun.