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Israel's siege of Gaza is illegal, EU says
(euobserver.com)
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this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. This cycle of violence and repression needs to stop.
By that logic, the other way this ends is the dissolution of israel.
They cant seem to stop themselves from murdering and pillaging their neighbors, right? So they have to go. Right? Thats matching your logic just fine.
There's another possibility.
Lebanon gets involved. Then Iran. Then the US. Then Iraq. Then Afghanistan. Then Russia. On and on until it's WW3
But no one wants to talk about that
Yes I'm sure we need to care about great power Afghanistan "getting involved" in Gaza. We should also be wary of Mongolia, and probably Lesotho as well.
Russia/Iran/US/EU are all already "involved" in with Israel. US/EU/Israel want to culturally genocide palestine and Russia/Iran want to hurt the US/EU. This isn't ww3, and if push comes to shove none of the major players are going to start ww3 over Israel or Palestine.
Nobody talks about it, because it's not realistic. This will be treated as another proxy war, with countries providing aid, but not actively fighting.
The US and Russia are already involved. Russia likely started this mess, and US is already sending munitions to its ally.
What's unlikely about Hezbollah getting involved? Or Iran? Or the Taliban?
It can easily inflame into a massive regional war, and there go oil prices. With oil prices go food prices. With both, inflation slips out of control. Now there's fuel shortages and hunger everywhere, heightening tensions.
This is a powder keg. Wake up
If the EU and the US have managed to avoid getting directly involved in Ukraine Vs Russia and starting WW3 that way, there is no way this conflict will start anything that big.
they really could have just left them alone. It would have been exactly the same result with the Palestinians blaming those in Palestine for their issues.
instead they meddle and build illegal settlements.
Found the Zionist
Israel isn’t just denying Hamas water, they are denying Palestinians water. That includes children and infants and uninvolved innocents.
Have they considered not trying to take over land that isn't theirs?
Few people are worried about hamas. The concern is for the women and children. The people with no say in any of this. It's not a crime to refuse to resupply an enemy, it is a crime to starve innocent people.
The children living in Gaza don't have that option. Hopefully evacuation corridors are operational.
Evacuation to where?
Anywhere that isn't getting genocided by IDF.
Name the place.
I'm not sure what you're getting at.
You're making vague statements that the children of Gaza should be evacuated, but that's not a solution unless you can tell me where they would be evacuated to.
There are two and a half million people in the Gaza Strip. What place is going to accept two and a half million Palestinian refugees? Bear in mind that millions of Palestinians have already ended up as refugees throughout the region and that is already considered a huge problem. Nobody wants even more to deal with. So what country? Even if there were magical teleporters to get them there and everyone was willing to leave their homes forever, who's going to take them in and support them?
Okay well then fuck em I guess. Shrug. We've tried nothing and we're all outta ideas. Without a complete and total answer for [random internet jackass] then nothing can be done.
You honestly expect me to have answers for this? All I can do is vaguely hope that some innocent civilians can escape. That's literally all I have.
If you're going to propose it as a solution, then yes, I would expect you to have answers.
I'm not trying to be cruel. But hope should have some basis in reality, and "evacuation corridors" just aren't going to be a thing for a significant number of people. The people in Gaza are trapped there.
You're wasting your time here.
I'm not the one proposing vague solutions with no real-world applicability.
https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties
Actually the only hope of truly lasting peace is the dissolution of Israel and the creation of a new state that doesn't limit citizenship and suffrage along ethnic or religious lines.
This. Israel never should have been there in the first place. It’s stolen land, ruled by a tyrannical apartheid regime.
I doubt that would work. If history is to be of any indication then Palestinians also have no desire to co-exist with Israel. If the sides were reversed Palestine would be doing the exact same things as Israel is doing. Arabs want Israel gone and it's been clear since the state of Israel was officially founded in 1948.
Founded is an odd way of writing colonized without any input or consideration by the people who were already living there.
If you want to blame anyone for that you can blame the brits for promising to establish a jewish state in Palestine and not really listening to the people living there.
Well yeah, but the Israelis have given exactly 0 consideration to the Palestinians for that fact. Its not the fault of Palestinians no matter which way you cut it, and Britain isn't in control of Israel. The Israeli state acts on its own behalf.
To my knowledge Israelis were accepting of the UN Palestine Partition plan, the Arab league (alongside Palestinians) completely rejected the idea and threatened to exterminate all jews if the plan is enacted. So the idea that Israelis have given exactly 0 consideration just isn't factual.
Now the subsequent expansions by Israel and their treatment of Gaza, that I agree is fully on Israel.
The arab league is still not Palestinians. Why is it whenever a group of Palestinians does anything you transplant their actions onto all Palestinians? Are all Americans responsible and complicit in the actions of the republican party?
And Israel and America have both repeatedly compromised negotiations with Palestine. In the mid 90s things were as close as they ever have been to a reasonable future for both Israelis and Palestinians. Netanyahu himself was involved in those negotiations and entirely sabotaged them. Netanyahu, the man who directly controls the IDF is open racist and genocidal towards Palestinians. And the IDF could genocide them, thats a thing they reasonably have the ability to do.
As always the actions and statements of extremist groups within Palestine are taken by western commentators to be indicative of all Palestinian people. None of us are defending extremist groups, so I don't know what exactly the point of condemning them in this discussion is.
The problem is that Israel is enacting collective punishment onto all Palestinians. The entire world should be universally condemning this vile slaughter of innocent lives. They're openly calling Palestinians animals and saying they're going to raze the mass ghettos they're forced to live in. It is unacceptable. It is disgusting.
I feel like you just refuse to have nuance and the only thing you're willing to agree with is if I say "Israel bad". And I don't have an issue saying that. Modern day Israel is bad. Their actions should be scrutinized. But that's not at all what I'm talking about. I'm simply pointing to history and saying that Palestine is not some harmless victim and Israel is not some inherently evil entity.
Because Palestine isnt a thing. Palestinians are members of an ethnic group related to a state that hasnt existed in 80 years like theyre not a state. Theyre just people. To say "Palestine is _______" or "Palestine said/did/supported" is wrong, there is no monolithic entity that can be referred to as palestine. There is no state of Palestine. There is the state of Israel, and Palestinians live within it.
It'd be like trying to characterize the entirety of african americans as some kind of unified group that takes united actions and makes united statements. There is no such thing. Palestinians are civilians. They havent done or said anything collectively. There are many Palestinians who have always openly denounced the actions of extremist groups.
Israel is a state on the other hand. A state governed by an openly fascist dictator. Israel can do things, like write laws and take military action. There is a military of Israel, there is a police force of Israel. Palestine has neither of those things. It would, again, be like trying to characterize native americans as some kind of state and be like "Native America isn't innocent" like that doesnt make any sense.
If you said "Hamas isnt innocent" id agree with you. They are a group that has shared responsibility for actions taken in their name, and a responsibility to denounce atrocities committed by their members. But not Palestinians. They are not Hamas. Hamas is Hamas. Members of Hamas may be Palestinian themselves, but Palestinians are not Hamas.
It is exactly the kind of rhetoric that is being used to justify the "self defense" of Israel against the "human animals" of Palestine.
Them kick em both out, bomb Jerusalem, move on.
Just take all the Israelis out of that region and give them Ohio.
Reprogram? What exactly does that look like for curiosities sake. Because another ethnic group of Muslims, the Uyghurs, have had china attempting to "reprogram" them. And that has been pretty well universally condemned as an attempt at cultural genocide.
Also, decimating hamas... how? By bombing Palestinian families? By depriving their hospitals of electricity and water? By, to quote Netanyahu the bastard that he is, "turning Gaza into a desert island"?
Noone wins a war of occupation. You either learn to live with conquered peoples and give them access tibequal rights (Roman empire) or completely erase the local population (Europeans in North America).
Same rhetoric as German occupiers claiming that they would not execute civilian hostages as long as Resistance fighters would give themselves up. Sorry for the Goldwyn point but you made it a low hanging fruit.
You are talking about an area of the world that is nearly 50% children.
It is a pretty clown face move to attach those that supply your water, electricity and fuel.
That's slave mentality, dude