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submitted 1 year ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

The Israeli rescue service Zaka says its paramedics removed more than 260 bodies from a music festival that came under attack by Hamas militants.

The total figure of bodies found is expected to be higher, as other paramedic teams were also working in the area and Zaka added that the bodies “haven’t all been collected yet”.

Early on Saturday morning, Hamas targeted Nova music festival, a techno rave in the desert near the border with Gaza.

Videos shared on social media and by Israeli news outlets showed dozens of festival-goers running through an open field as gunshots rang out. Many hid in nearby fruit orchards or were gunned down as they fled.

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[-] there1snospoon@ttrpg.network 151 points 1 year ago

I had been pretty much on the Palestinian side of the conflict for some time.

This attack has absolutely burnt any goodwill I had for the Palestinian cause. If Mexico attacked America in this manner, we would likely own everything south of the Gulf of California.

I cannot fathom what Hamas thought would come of this.

[-] NAXLAB@lemmy.world 193 points 1 year ago

"Palestine" is not the one that did this. Hamas is a terrorist group, and their actions do not justify the fact that the Israeli government operates an apartheid state where people are given rights, status, and property on the basis of race, and also participates in the slaughter of innocent people.

This isn't a "whoever's worse should lose" situation. Israel commits human rights violations and Hamas is a terrorist group.

[-] BB69@lemmy.world 86 points 1 year ago

Hamas is the governing body of Palestine.

It was Palestine who did this.

[-] BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 81 points 1 year ago

Strictly speaking, it's the governing body of Gaza, which hasn't held elections in well over a decade. The West Bank is governed by the party Fatah, which is much less militant.

There is, however, the awkward truth that the West Bank has also not held elections in a long time, precisely because Hamas would probably win them.

[-] flossdaily@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago

At last count, Hamas had something like a 75 percent approval rating in Gaza.

The support among all Palestinians is just over 50 percent.

Only 14 percent support the opposition party.

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[-] Jaderick@lemmy.world 64 points 1 year ago

By this logic all Iranians support their current Islamist government, which everyone and their mother knows to not be true.

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 52 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Do you support everything your government does?

[-] BB69@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

My government doesn’t have a 75% approval rating like Hamas does.

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 year ago

I have trouble believing any government truly has such high approval.

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[-] Ulv@feddit.nu 10 points 1 year ago

No but i still am part of my country. Every thing my government does represents my country and therefore me.

[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

The government represents the people, the people do not represent the government.

[-] kmaismith@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

That mindset will lead you to boot licking

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[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago

That's like saying when Republicans do something stupid. It's America. It's not. There's far more going on. And that's just disingenuous.

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The lack of nuance displayed around here sometimes is truly disturbing.

[-] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 1 year ago

"Them versus us" mentality is very prominent in modern society and it's only gotten worse. Not just in the context of conflicts, it's a general problem.

[-] njm1314@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago

Hamas is the governing body of Gaza. They don't control the West Bank where the majority of Palestinians live.

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[-] Nevoic@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I hate the phrasing "terrorist group" here. Not because what happened here wasn't an atrocity, but because people generally refuse to call state-backed violence "terrorist" violence. The word terrorism is incredibly broad, easily describing a ton of things Israel does. Yet, we refuse to call them a terrorist organization.

Israel slaughtered hundreds of protesters 4 years ago in Gaza.

Israel and Egypt have been blockading the Gaza strip in violation of the GCIV since 2007.

In 2014, a triple-homicide was committed. Israel claimed it was Hamas, and arrested hundreds of Palestinians. Hamas sent rockets into Israel, killing 2 people, and Israel initiated Operation Protective Edge, killing thousands of Palestinians.

Not to mention the entire Israel-Palestine conflict can be traced back about 100 years, where imperialist Britain endorsed the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine in the Balfour Declaration. Eventually leading to the formation of Israel in the late 40s and the subsequent ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, forcing nearly a million natives to move to make way for Israel.

"terrorism" is politically charged language with the intent of making us sympathize with a certain side. Of course we'll side with the "Israel state" and against the "Hamas terrorist group". The language used to describe these groups already prescribes how we should view them. Western media will never describe Israel's atrocities as terrorist actions, so people will dismiss the slaughter of tens or even hundreds of thousands of innocent Palestinians as "just war".

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[-] falconhoof@artemis.camp 126 points 1 year ago

We shouldn't conflate the people of Isreal with the extremist State of Isreal, we shouldn't conflate the people of Palestine with Hamas. Atrocities have been committed on both sides and each one is an atrocity, but the fact remains that the Palestinian people are living under an apartheid and therefore should be supported despite acts committed by extremists in it's name. This situation shouldn't be reduced to a simplistic one-sided team sport. Palestine still needs liberating.

[-] 5BC2E7@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

It’s difficult to not conflate them with hammas when 80% supprts them and celebrated the attack

[-] bear@slrpnk.net 10 points 1 year ago

Honest question: What would you do if you were born there?

[-] 5BC2E7@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago
[-] bear@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 year ago

You expect me to believe you would simply leave behind the place you were born and all of your loved ones?

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[-] TylerDurdenJunior@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

Just like in Israel..

[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Source, post-attack?

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[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 63 points 1 year ago

The us doesn't hold Mexico or Mexicans in an open air concentration camp we regularly demolish buildings in with war munitions for simple allegation with no due process.

I'm going to bet it's going to come out that this is essentially Iran and other countries sending mercs to act as Hamas just as the last major offensive was.

[-] flossdaily@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The native Americans would beg to differ about how the United States treated the people who were here before them.

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

I'm talking about Mexico today currently as was the person I replied to, and yes as a native I'm aware how shitty the us still treat its native populaces.

[-] VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 13 points 1 year ago

The us doesn't hold Mexico or Mexicans in an open air concentration camp

True. The concentration camps on and near the US-Mexican border aren't open air.

[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

There is no justification for what they've done. Senseless violence breeds senseless violence, but we can still blame those who do violence. Everyone subjected to Israel's abuse isn't killing civilians.

At this point it seems clear to me that Hamas is just using the Palestinians and doesn't actually care about them.

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[-] ThatGirlKylie@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

There was already an article out that said Iran helped hamas.

Tehran is saying they didn’t do it. But articles from wsj and the like have said they did help.

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[-] BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 53 points 1 year ago

Hamas isn't a rational actor fighting for a free Palestine; their one and only goal - literally written into their charter - is to eradicate every Jew from the land by force.

Every Jew they kill is a victory for them; there's nothing more to it.

[-] tiny_tina_@lemm.ee 47 points 1 year ago

Dont forget the paraded naked woman that was spit on by people. Hamas are savages who are funded by Iran

[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago

This was an Iranian funded terrorist group, not a Palestinian liberation group. They claim to help the latter, but this attack makes it obvious they don't give a shit about Palestinians, they just sent to hurt Israelis. Everyone is better off if the group can be destroyed.

[-] flossdaily@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

This is who they have always been. In over half a century of conflict they have only ever chosen terrorism. Never once have they tried to achieve their goals through passive resistance, despite the historical lessons of Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr, that this is the only strategy that works against overwhelming military force.

And the reason they haven't tried it is because peaceful coexistance is not their goal. They want Israel destroyed, and have shown the world for the better part of a century that they will settle for literally nothing less.

[-] Jaderick@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/kings-message-of-nonviolence-has-been-distorted/557021/

This does not apply to other renown activists like Nelson Mandela nor does it apply to revolutionary movements like the American Revolution.

You don’t know what you’re talking about lol

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 year ago

That is patently false. Of course Palestinians have been using non violent civil society tactics for a very long time. What do you think the vilified BDS movement was/is about? Looking for a Mandela figure? Look up Marwan Barghouti. The problem is that every time moderate Palestinians become even a tiny bit successful at making their voice heard internally or externally, either Israel in an official capacity or the dominant nationalist Israeli political powers and their allies within and without move in to completely stifle them. This in turn allows only the most extreme Palestinian voices to survive, since in the absence of a public opinion with a Conscience and a Decency to listen to NV movements, extreme violent movements are the only ones that can thrive on persecution.

[-] Krono@lemmy.today 7 points 1 year ago

Palestinian passive resistance is well documented.

You should educate yourself on things like the Great March of Return. Palestinians (and yes, Hamas too) marched peacefully for over a year near the border fence that entraps them. Israel responded by killing over 200 people and injuring over 9000.

If you're in the mood to get angry, go to youtube and look up interviews with IDF soldiers who did the shooting. Many smile and laugh as they brag about shooting unarmed civilians.

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[-] esc27@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

I'm starting to wonder if that is the point. Groups like Hamas thrive on anger and conflict.

[-] DeriHunter@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

I'm both glad and sorry that this is what made you understand, hamas was like that ever since u remember myself, Israel never start those clashes. They always shoot hiding behind kindergartens, women and elderly people while the shoot thousands of missiles.

The only difference between previous ones to this one is that the caught us off guard

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this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
838 points (100.0% liked)

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