67
Anti-China Rhetoric Is Off the Charts in Western Media
(thediplomat.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2023
67 points (100.0% liked)
World News
22095 readers
181 users here now
Breaking news from around the world.
News that is American but has an international facet may also be posted here.
Guidelines for submissions:
- Where possible, post the original source of information.
- If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
- Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
- Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
- Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
- Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
For US News, see the US News community.
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
I'm not anti-China, I genuinely wish the best for the people of China. I'm anti-CCP.
I don't think China will really be able to engage or cooperate with a world community in any meaningful way until the CCP is out of the picture. There's simply zero trust there from anyone.
This is an important difference that always gets left out in these articles.
Of course people will be anti-China when the CCP is making the movies (edit, I meant "moves" but movies works too haha). It's one thing to ask for companies to make a version of media specifically for your country, but using your weight to make that the version? That is an insanely big red flag when Tencent has roots in everything and also goes by the whim of the party.
On the flip side, my friend from college moved to China a couple years after we graduated and he's been doing really, really well. He loves it there. Ironically he ended up getting a job with Tencent and is a pretty big part of their last released Synced. So I'm glad he's doing well, but it's also been weird talking about certain topics with him. It was also weird when I was asking about how he was talking with me and he's like "oh I just have to get on a VPN and etc so I that's why I'm not around much, but it's cool lol." Kinda freaky when I also just see the articles about a company getting fined for using a VPN. I'm sure he'll be fine but it's still slightly worrying.
Which ultimately kind of sums up the situation. My friend loved his experience in China so much so that he moved back there seemingly permanently and set himself up with a nice life with the culture seeming to be a big part of that. And then there's the actions of the government. Many of the same criticisms can absolutely be held toward the U.S. regarding housing and towards a not-so-small portion our political actions, however it seems the difference is that we don't have a knitted corporate government quite yet. I dunno, the sway of Apple, MS, whoever else just doesn't have the same weight as the CCP and Tencent. That generally seems to be peoples issue
Yes, and this is why the experience of individuals can't be taken as an indication of whether there is or isn't a problem.
China is a huge country with a long history and cultures of its own, the people there are like anywhere else mainly concerned with just living their day to day life. But we learned from the middle of the last century that people can be living a relatively normal life directly adjacent to some of the most heinous crimes against humanity our species has ever seen.
There's a lot of value that the people of China could contribute, culturally and economically, if they were in a position to actually freely and openly engage with the rest of the world in an honest way. Some incredible cinema, for example, came out of China prior to the new age of censorship and hyper-aggressive information control brought in by Xi. I just wish that the CCP was out of the picture so that could happen again, China has so much more to offer.
The fact that you name Apple and Microsoft makes me think there is a blind spot here. If you are taking about big tech with it's tendrils in US policy I'd go for Google and Facebook. Big pharma and the military industrial complex are even bigger issues. These industries don't just undermine the US but harm the global community as well. Then you have think tanks, often funded by capital, shaping narratives and foreign policy.
I more just didn't want to list more than 3 companies, hence "whoever else". You're right that Google and Facebook are closer to the tendrils of Tencent than MS or Apple, or well, Apple at least.
The government of the United States is also highly untrustworthy, but plenty of other nation's governments engage and cooperate with the US. This isn't whataboutism, it's evidence that there must be other factors.
In some ways, yes, certain factions within the US government have been untrustworthy. However, I think people do not understand that China is still on a completely different level. There's a reason that the US is broadly trusted by its allies (or was, largely, up until the recent decade of overt campaign of internal sabotage).
To compare the US and China is like comparing Kent State to Tienanmen Square. Were they both violations of fundamental human liberty? Yes. Are they at all comparable as reflections of the viability of each respective state's potential to sustain human liberty? No.
The US is in a conflict with itself, between far-right, corporate factions and those groups that actually defend some semblance of democratic liberty. This fact is the proof of the difference, that some meaningful element of democracy does exist in the US. The US has the ability to course correct. In China rule has been consolidated under a single man, unchallenged now, who has created hundreds of prison camps and a surveillance state unmatched even by the US. He ran literal execution vans in his run up to power.
Convincing people that the crimes committed by China against its own people and those they've colonized are normal is a way of lessening the seriousness with which those crimes are regarded. You have to ask yourself if that's really the goal you want to be serving. You're not required to sing the praises of the US, but acknowledging the meaningful degree of difference is critical to preventing the world sliding further into an authoritarian paradigm.
This just sounds like a whole lot of liberal US apologia. It isn't actually far off from regressive phrases like MAGA or A Few Bad Apples. There was no golden time when the US has been a bastion of freedom and human welfare and it mostly shows signs of getting worse, and you cannot fix the US by removing a few politicians.
I don't see what the point is of picking two specific events when we are discussing nations and governments as a whole. Taken in totality the US does not and has not ever shown signs of sustaining liberty as you put it. The law and order system is a joke, human welfare is a joke, safety is a joke, education is a joke, foreign policy is a joke. A lot of these fundamental issues are completely ignorable for the privileged, and the last one ignorable if you live in the US itself, but I am not looking to have liberty for some and not others.
I disagree. I think what you're doing right now is what strengthens authoritarianism in "Western" countries. Always framing Western countries, especially the US, as the lesser of two evils just justifies nationalism and militarism and downplays the need for radical change. What's the point of this liberty you speak of if we don't use it to criticize our own governments, and why stop at just criticism? The truth is you'll only realize how thin your liberty actually is when you actually pose a threat.
But I'm not sure how we got on this tangent. I was simply responding to the notion of geopolitical trust and how that relates to the US and China. The US reneges on international agreements all the time or simply does not adhere to them. The government also partakes in the manipulation of foreign governments, extrajudicial murders in foreign countries in "times of peace", and sabotages countries with embargos. All of this should make the US untrustworthy, but the unspoken part is that when we talk about trust we are taking about among Western countries. These nations have some shared geopolitical goals and because the US's violations aren't against these nations but against ones where say the common religion is different or the people have a darker average complexion they can be ignored.
You're conflating a comparison with an endorsement.
One can say the US is unquestionably better than China while still acknowledging the US has issues.
I'd challenge you to find any country that's truly "trustworthy." That doesn't mean I think it's impossible, I just think historically humans suck at governorship.
As for what's different between the US and China, your original point, I think a lot of it is just what's available/who has the better deal. The US historically has the better innovations, the better weaponry, and in the case of Europe, bidirectional cultural influences, and there's just a lot more history with the US as a partner and a lot more families with folks in both locations.