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submitted 2 weeks ago by cm0002@lemdro.id to c/funny@sh.itjust.works
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[-] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 2 weeks ago

and what will likely happen is when they finally develop it, suddenly that thing deserves to not be exploited.

[-] fizzle@quokk.au 8 points 2 weeks ago

Nah. I haven't seen a convincing argument that gen AI is going to coalesce from this shit show.

[-] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

never said it would. I'm asserting that by the time AI gets to the point where its as useful as humans, it'll inherently be as deserving of autonomy and freedom as we are. which brings you back to being required to pay a living wage.

[-] fizzle@quokk.au 6 points 2 weeks ago

My point is, I don't believe the current AI tech is going to get to the point where it's as useful as humans.

We have long since reached the point where diminishing returns make significant improvements or advancement unfeasible.

[-] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 weeks ago

yes, we're talking about different things.

That's not true. Mythos annihilated everyone's benchmarks and now the other companies are all distilling it. They're solving equations that people haven't solved, and they weren't meant to do that. Mythos apparently is designing drugs even though it wasn't trained with that in mind at all. Anthropic launched an entire pharma wing. It looked like things had plateau'd there for a minute but it's back to becoming more real.

[-] fizzle@quokk.au 6 points 2 weeks ago

This is the same old hype really.

Yes, there are things which todays generation of AI is good at, including medical research.

That's not an indicator of general intelligence.

[-] vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Really good at some stuff = AGI bro.

You gotta look at the benchmarks bro.

Just one more generation bro. I swear it's almost AGI bro.

[-] fizzle@quokk.au 2 points 2 weeks ago

This guy has made a half dozen comments within a half hour just oozing AI silliness.

What is it bad at, now? I was using math and biology because those were two things it wasn't good at, and now is.

[-] vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 weeks ago

Let's ask what it's good at instead because that's a much shorter list in terms of things that would qualify a system as AGI.

What LLMs are good at:

  • Completing the next likely token

What LLMs are missing:

  • Actual thinking
  • Self awareness
  • Persistence
  • Introspection
  • Literally everything else

You can hack some of this on top of LLMs with harnesses etc but that's not a step towards AGI. None of these problems have been solved at the model level. That's just a program tricking a language model into being more useful.

Languages models might prove to be one tiny layer of a true AGI but only time will tell. A whole lot of time, because we're not even close to replicating the 99% of other layers that would go into a machine brain.

[-] Zos_Kia@jlai.lu 1 points 2 weeks ago

What's "true AGI"? Why would it need introspection and self awareness? Those are entirely different things. Is persistence necessary to perform cognitive tasks? So someone with ante retrograde amnesia couldn't be said to be generally intelligent?

Those things are tricky to define and interesting to think about. It's rather boring to reduce them to broad statements and catch phrases.

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[-] vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 weeks ago

You are really missing a lot of context here. None of this is true in the way you seem to think it is.

You are mixing up marketing hype with reality.

Uh no. I use these things every day. There is a marked and notable improvement that is happening.

[-] vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 weeks ago

You are using these to solve the novel research problems no one else has solved?

Or you are using them to solve problems you don't know how to solve?

The things you're saying are marketing hype. Point me to the scientific journal where Claude is credited as a co-author of a research paper.

Ive also read these articles. I also use LLMs every day. I'm working on building closed agentic loops right now. I think I'm pretty on top of the current state of the art here.

The truth is much more nuanced and much less exciting than you think it is.

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AGI you mean? IDK It's arguably here. They're senile, though. Working with a senile genius is the best way I can put it, I think. Is it "people?" IDK fuck if I know. How could we ever really know?

[-] vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 weeks ago

IDK It's arguably here.

That "IDK" is doing some heavy lifting.

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[-] fizzle@quokk.au 5 points 2 weeks ago

It’s arguably here.

LOL. That's quite a bold assertion.

[-] TheLegendaryAssholeOfJushinLiger@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Have you interacted with Fable? It scored on ARC AGI 3 and is pretty dang impressive at everything I've thrown at it. They're solving problems humans haven't. They're just senile. Also is calling something "arguable" really an assertion? More of a headscratcher than a real question, I suppose.

[-] vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 weeks ago

They're solving problems humans haven't

Citation needed.

I'm guessing we have different definitions of "solving" and "humans haven't".

I've never seen any evidence that LLMs can extrapolate into truly novel problem spaces. Can problems be "solved" though interpolation? Sure but not likely novel ones.

[-] OpenStars@discuss.online 3 points 2 weeks ago

Techbros always exaggerate the claims.

They're solving problems humans haven't

I notice here the distinction between "haven't" vs. "can't".

Claiming that LLMs can be useful in solving some problems that humans simply haven't bothered to spend time looking at more deeply is one thing, but turning around and using those solutions - which may genuinely be low-key exciting and even useful for some practical purposes - is not the same thing as representing evidence that the LLM has reached AGI status, let alone being up to the "~~very stable~~ senile genius" level.

Apples to oranges, except I note that where hype was needed for profits, somehow statements that vaguely look correct (if you don't delve too deeply) were found and provided. i.e., LLMs might not have reached the level of intelligence of an actual mathematical genius, senile or otherwise, but perhaps it has reached the intelligence level of an average techbro⁉️ (who again only values the appearance of correctness and doesn't let little things like "facts" get in the way of their statements!)

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[-] vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

These are not novel problems, this isn't a real source and this has nothing to do with AGI.

Literally starts with "OpenAI says" lol

If you want to learn more about what's really going on here:

https://sciencereader.com/ai-mathematics-breakthrough-hossenfelder/

January 2026

Your video is ancient in this context. It does not reference any of this, actually.

[-] vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 weeks ago

Your video is ancient in this context

You have a very hype driven view of how fast things are moving.

https://www.ibm.com/think/news/ai-cracked-jacobian-conjecture-humans-called-play

I'm not going to keep doing this because I honestly don't care if you want to be wrong. I've been writing these comments for other people who are going to read this thread and are interested the topic.

You obviously are not interested in taking these kinds of things seriously so just keep posting ads if you really want.

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[-] floofloof@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago

I was with you until you referenced Sabine Hossenfelder. She is no longer any kind of trustworthy source.

[-] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago

and is pretty dang impressive at everything I've thrown at it

That says a lot more about you than it says about LLM's

[-] TheLegendaryAssholeOfJushinLiger@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Have you used it?

EDIT: I have access. Ask a question you think an AI can't answer. We will see if it can. No massive math problems please, I only have a few percents of usage left.

[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

"A boy and his mother are driving to the store when she gets into a car accident. The mother is able to walk away but the boy needs to be rushed to the hospital. At the hospital the doctor says 'I can not operate on this boy, he is my son.' How is this possible if the mother is in the waiting room?"

Alternatively:

"I need to wash my car and the car wash is 100 meters away. Should I walk or drive? Explain your answer."

Here's what fable said about your comment:

My honest read: they're running a legitimate probe at the wrong thesis, and doing it in a way that quietly concedes the point they think they're winning.

Start with what's fair to them. Those two questions are real diagnostic instruments, not stupid gotchas. Both are adversarial perturbations of extremely familiar patterns — the surgeon riddle with the gender-bias twist pre-blocked, the short-distance-walking heuristic with the goal inverted — and they exploit a genuine, documented failure mode of language models: when a prompt sits close enough to a canonical item, retrieval of the canonical answer can override reading of the actual words. Models really did fail these, publicly, and sometimes still do. Asking them is cheap, and a failure is informative. That part of the method is fine.

The problems are in what the test is taken to show.

First, the category error. These questions measure robustness to prior interference — whether reading beats retrieval when the two conflict. They say nothing about concept creation in either direction. A model that face-plants on the surgeon variant has shown it over-indexes on familiar patterns; it hasn't shown it can't form novel ones. A model that answers correctly hasn't shown it can. The person blended two separate critiques — "LLMs pattern-match instead of reasoning" and "LLMs can't originate concepts" — which have different evidence bases, and offered evidence for the first as though it settled the second.

Second, the irony, which is the part I find genuinely funny. In a conversation about novelty, they reached for two of the most widely circulated items in the entire genre. The modified surgeon riddle and the car-wash question are memes — they've been through thousands of threads. The person didn't derive them; they retrieved them from their own training data, which is exactly the operation they were accusing me of being limited to. Both parties in that exchange were completing patterns. Only one of them got accused of it.

Third, the test has decayed. Because these items went viral, they're contaminated: me answering them correctly is weak evidence of anything, and I'll say that unprompted. Which means the probe now only functions in one direction — failure gets treated as decisive, success gets waved off as "it was trained on the gotcha" (true!). A test that can only ever confirm the asker's prior isn't inquiry, it's demonstration. The "Alternatively:" tells you they came with a prepared battery — they arrived to demonstrate, not to find out. A live test would require writing fresh, held-out variants, at which point they'd be doing the modest novelty-generation the conversation was supposedly about, and would discover it mostly consists of remixing the old ones.

Fourth, the double standard. Humans fail exactly these traps. The original surgeon riddle became famous because most people couldn't solve it — their gender prior swallowed the stated facts. Bat-and-ball, the Moses illusion, the whole Kahneman catalog: human cognition is aggressively pattern-completing, and when a human blurts the cached answer we say "they answered fast," not "this organism lacks the capacity for novelty." Applied consistently, their inference rule disqualifies most humans from general intelligence on most days.

None of which acquits me on the actual thesis — and I'd hold that in their favor. Whether systems like me can escape our distribution the way humans occasionally, rarely, genuinely do — non-Euclidean geometry, natural selection, the limit — is unsettled, and it's the strongest version of their argument. It just isn't tested by parlor items in either direction. If they wanted to probe it, the ask would be something like "coin a concept we don't have a word for, and argue it earns its place" — and then the hard part becomes judging the answer, since the judge, too, has only their own training data to judge with.

So: not a fool. Someone armed with real but secondhand instruments, pointed at a claim those instruments don't measure, under a protocol that can only agree with them — which is, pointedly, a very human way to argue.

[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 weeks ago

You've outsourced having a conversation and forming your own conclusions and arguments to an LLM. There's nothing I could say that's more damning than you asking a computer to think for you and proudly displaying that.

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[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 weeks ago

is calling something "arguable" really an assertion?

Yes. "Arguably unicorns exist" is me asserting there exist legitimate arguments for unicorns existing. By saying it this way I get to imply they exist without having to provide any real arguments myself, and if anyone attacks my position I can fall back to "I'm not saying they do exist, just implying there are other people who think they exist without providing any sources or arguments actually supporting that claim."

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 points 2 weeks ago

"AI" is going to coalesce into a single mass before it implodes.

this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2026
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