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this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2026
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Fuck AI
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A place for all those who loathe AI to discuss things, post articles, and ridicule the AI hype. Proud supporter of working people. And proud booer of SXSW 2024.
AI, in this case, refers to LLMs, GPT technology, and anything listed as "AI" meant to increase market valuations.
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That's why university evaluations should be always in pen and paper.
this is just unacceptable, those students should be just expelled without mercy IMO.
Or at least give students computers that have restricted or no access to the internet? Even before LLMs having access to the internet would have been a huge opportunity to cheat. At least in most subjects.
Also, what happened to teachers/supervisors walking around and checking if the students cheat? Back when I went to school we also cheated with cheat sheets or exchanging answers but it was always risky because getting busted meant failing the test (or worse).
Letting students use the internet unrestrictedly would be like the teacher leaving the room and leaving us unsupervised for the duration of the test back in my days.
could be... they made me programa python on paper.
for introduction to programming, basically you had to try to run the program on your head lmao.
Yeah I did this with C and it was stressful, but the marks are usually graded more leniently if its clear you just got a function name mixed up for example.
"Open book" or internet tests or tests you wrote at home were much harder because they know you have all the resources
I've had multiple classes that required writing code by hand. Not that big of a deal imo.
And before you ask, the first was Intro to C (in which the teacher ironically always wrote the problems in C++) and the second was Applied Numerical Methods
I visited India in the early '90s and I was surprised to find there a small software shop that had five programmers and one PC. They would write their code (in TurboBasic lol) on paper and then take turns typing it into the computer and running it.
I did the same thing at the start of my own programming career ... only with punchcards instead of pencil and paper.
It sounds silly but "running the program from your head" is a super important skill as a programmer. It's what you do when you read and try to understand other people's code.
idunno man I'm studying mech eng... still a lot of fun that class ngl, I once was taking an engineering nap at the library, and while I was in the stupor just before asleep, it came to me the answer to a extra point question the teacher had given, one that was supposed to be in the exam but they took it out because they tought it was too hard.
Damn I felt smart for a brief second there, never in my life had I felt smarter lol.
yeah i enjoyed that class, but i can't imagine myself workig as a CompSci/eng/programmer, I found that is just too much brute force for my taste, is just not that elegant.
I went to high school in the '80s. I cheated in my German class by inventing my own runic-sort-of script and ~~declining~~ conjugating all the verbs on the cover of my notebook, hiding it in a drawing of a big obelisk or spaceship or the like. I would have this notebook on the floor during the test and I could easily read whatever I needed right off of it. Teacher never suspected a thing.
And now ... I can't fucking speak German. The teacher did throw a board eraser at my head one time, but that was only because I kept speaking German with a thick Texas accent.
I reckon part of the problem is that verbs are conjugating. Nouns are declined.
Well, I cheated in English class the same way ...
this, they can do this in a computer lab, where a lab moniter employee can watch all the students computers from her computers. they do this at our CC computer labs, 1 moniter hired to watch whatever the students are doing on thier computers, from her computer which moniters all the students comps at once.
If having access to basic technology like the internet is considered cheating, then your test need to upgrade to the 21st century.
I'm all for teaching tech literacy. It's one of the most important skills. However, if a task is about writing your own thoughts in your own words then maybe you should prevent cheating by limiting access to tools like llms or have better supervision.
If the task involves using technology then the task should be adapted so you still need your own mind to solve it (obviously).
Ah yes, let's make it so everyone that is physically disabled or lacking in dexterity fails tests, just like the good old days.
/Sarcasm
This is ridiculous, in my uni is pen and paper, and people with physical or mental disabilities get accommodations so they can perform as good as other people, I myself have some due to autism.
What is not OK is just to give a medium to enable cheaters like this.
Yeah, it's interesting seeing some professors complaining about how AI has made catching cheaters harder now.
But then you see that they are letting students have access to phones and laptops during exam with no software/Internet restriction and you think...yeah I wonder why...what could possibly be done...
Not allow them those devices for a subject like history during an exam? No impossible.
When I brought it up here a teacher went lol but they have phones and tablets. As if its not worth even trying to prevent. And also they said they didn't want to do paper and pencil either because its too much work to grade.
There are programs that completely lock down laptops for exams preventing you from using internet, going to the desktop, open other docs, etc so its not like it has to be paper and pencil to prevent AI usage. But, its like some professors just can't wrap their head around the concept of not allowing full access to electronics or none at all despite the subject matter not being something like programming, but history.
These are generally platform specific and, by their nature, extremely invasive. For people who don't care about their computer except as an "internet getter thingy" and use a supported environment this is fine.
I on the other hand practically can't take such tests without using the university's computers.
With respect to my understanding of accessibility and decency it pretty much does have to be paper and pencil if they're going to limit information access.
Platform specific to windows and mac devices. Thing is if a university wants to create a hard to cheat environment while refusing to do paper exams that is the best option available.
Alternative is choosing to administer exams on personal electronics while doing nothing to prevent access to internet, notes, and software yet asking students to not use it.
That is just naive. And this has been the standard at least where I went to school even before AI. It's not like laptops and smartphones are something new. Its been ubiquitous over a decade now. Yet, some schools act like they've never dealt with it before just because of AI when even prior to AI teachers were well aware of the cheating capabilities of electronics. Even graphing calculators.
Correct. There are two operating systems people use, the rest don't matter.
Refuse? Why?
One teacher here when I brought up paper exams said they find it a hassle to grade.
Mind you I'm not approaching this from a privacy or consumer advocates position. But, as a general university that doesn't care about that and is just choosing among options available to try to make cheating more difficult.
I'm more just amazed at how lax electronics in classes has become during exams more than anything.
Oh, even your students that are unable to use a pen and paper? Neat, don't know how they do it
Are you aware that students that are unable to use pen and paper already get accommodations both during regular school days as well as at exams?
Some see those as demeaning.
There's an interesting thing known as "Medical Model" Vs "Social Model" for accessibility;
Medical Model - you have an amputated leg, here's a crutch, it is awkward and cumbersome to use and makes you feel "other"
Social Model - you have an amputated leg, it doesn't effect you as having ramps and accessible features it's so normalised that you don't need to struggle with subpar solutions, and you don't notice the difference as much
You're currently advocating for the worse option, the Medical Model
Amputees don't need crutches because ramps? Go to sleep.
Also, people with crutches do benefit from ramps, they're easier to get up than stairs when you have a crutch
Yes, of course ramps can be useful to people with crutches. You kinda just presented two cases, one where the person with an amputated leg gets a crutch and it sucks for them and makes them feel bad; and another where having an amputated leg doesn't affect them thanks to other forms of accessibility, of which you named ramps. That was a weak argument.
But we were talking about whether people who can't use pen and paper get proper accommodations or not. Now let me remind you that the context of this thread is cheating using LLMs and whether students should have access to LLMs during exam-taking or not. You have spoken in favor of such an arrangement, on account disabled students who have difficulty with pen and paper.
You wrote that some students supposedly find the available accommodations 'demeaning'. It appears you're trying to say that the available accommodations are "medical", and that you're instead proposing that all students whether they can use pen and paper or not, should have access to LLMs during exam-taking, because that would be a "social" solution and therefore your preferred alternative.
If you're trolling, then let me congratulate you, you win. If not, please try to reflect over what hypothetical problem it is you're trying to solve, and also how you should go about presenting your argument in the future, because it is utterly unconvincing.
I've spoken in favour of having a computer in exams, not a jot in favour of LLMs. And that it should be a option available for both those who need and those who want. (The social model is this case)
You've entirely read a subtext which didn't exist.
You can just give incredibly locked down laptops, no internet connection, no way to add apps, pre installed. They're not even hard to setup.
They've had those in the UK for like 20-something years.
It should basically be a computer that's one step above a typewriter.
And fuck LLMs and AI
Then that's the lesson you should learn here - be clear with what you mean, because I can guarantee you that everyone else in this thread interpreted your comments in the exact same way that I did. They're not downvoting you because they're opposed to the accommodation you're describing, they're downvoting you because that's now what came across.
As you pointed out, locked-down desktops on university intranet is the goto for students that need accommodations. I don't think anyone is arguing for removing that.
I was clear, you just didn't read
You got downvoted into oblivion, and I bet you it's not because people disagree, it's because you weren't in fact being clear at all.
Learn to read
Nah, I think I'm gonna unlearn reading after this interaction.
And yet here you are
they usually have a social worker that uses the pen and paper for them.
If they're getting electronic aids from the institution, then it should have an 'exam mode' that it has to be put into.
I guess the only reason they don't do electronic exams on institution controlled hardware, is - I assume - they can't afford enough terminals. But they should have enough for the people that can't use pen and paper.
That's already been the standard for decades in the UK, they're set to offline mode and incredibly locked down.
I have no idea why the schools aren't doing that in USA other than cause y'all are somehow both incredibly behind the times in some fields of tech (accessibility, education, social care, taxes, politics) and incredibly far ahead in others (engineering, medical, physics, research, murder, warcrimes)
Or we do like the current days and give reasonable accomodations for those that need them while still preserving the integrity of the exam?
That's what accommodations are for
why do people keep using this accessibility argument for AI? Is it cause y'all can't 'think of the children' your way to getting the ignorant to agree?
I think he was "arguing" (not sure, as there's the added /s) about the pen and paper. Not everyone can use a pen well, there's also accessibility needs for people with severe dyslexia and such.
You're exactly correct, the /s was showing that I ain't doing a Poe's Law (some comedy about terrible views is so like the actual terrible views that without a wink or other signifier it's difficult to tell it's a joke)
Who said I was being pro-AI?
I'm being pro-disabity, that's all. AI can get in a bin.