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this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
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The reason why they say this was murder:
This isn't a drunk driver, or a thrillseeker, this is someone with murderous intent.
Considering she was unconscious as well, sounds like it was a murder/suicide attempt.
Sounds more like a suicide/self harm thing to me.
When you include an unconsenting person in the attempt, it is also murder.
Not a lawyer, but even if they consent isn't it murder?
You can't consent to murder, the best you could do is indemnify someone/an organisation against accidental death.
Genuine question - why not? If someone wants to be murdered, for whatever reason, would that not be them consenting?
You could try to argue some suicide/euthanasia case, but "murder" by definition is intentional death without the consent of the victim.
There are cases of mutual murderer/suicide pacts where there's shared responsibility and actions taken by each party but that wouldn't have been possible when she was the only one in control of the car. Even if the boyfriend was suicidal, and there's no reason to think he was from this article, the other passenger clearly wasn't. IANAL either but I think that's what the above comment was trying to get at.
It sounds much more like an abusive relationship. She was trying to punish him, regardless of the risk to herself.
A woman kills family then kills self. Is it murder?!!!! Oh. No, just self-harm.
That's not exactly what has happened here and derailing it using emotional hyperbole won't help either.
Honestly, it's very very similar. AFAICT she was trying to punish him. It has all the hallmarks of an abusive relationship. And an all too common outcome.
If you attempt to kill yourself and take other people with you, it's commonly called murder/suicide. Killing people with intent is usually murder.
This is why suicidal people are dangerous, it's a relatively small change from killing yourself, to killing others.
This is why pastry chefs are dangerous, it's a relatively small change from baking your bread, to baking others.
This is why being baked while baking with a baker is dangerous. You get too baked and you might get baked by the baker for making bad cakes.
Baking bread and stuff is easier. Have you seen hot fat people have gotten? No way I am getting an adult into my oven.
What a ridiculous take.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277022/
Did you read anything else in that paper...? The words around that statement? Even the abstract?
Or did you google what you wanted to see and post the result, because that paper is not about people harming others whilst attempting suicide. It is barely tangentially about that.
(it's about the impact of aggressive-impulsive tendencies on the suicide...r themselves)
@ryathal @agressivelyPassive
Have suicidal ideation is in no way, shape or form the same as being the perpetrator of a murder-suicide. Neither is being suicidal a lead-in to becoming a murderer.
Driving a car at 100mph into a building is more than ideation. That's attempted suicide.
No there may be a small chance of collateral damage, such as this case. But suicidal thinking does not make you think of killing others. You're clearly lucky enough to have never had suicidal ideation, but it never comes near the kind of thoughts that want to kill others
It changes when it comes to acting. If you have the gun to your head, shooting someone telling you to stop is also highly likely.
Let's see some stats on that one because being an abusive murder is a lot different than suicidality.
There is no correlation between her wanting to kill people and her potential suicidality. They just coincidentally line up in this case.
Sounds more like a mental health issue tbh...
In most US jurisdictions if you're "just" trying to commit a felony, like purposely crashing your car at 100+ MPH (160+ KPH) to cause grievous bodily harm to others, and someone dies as a result that's automatically elevated to murder.
It'll depend on the jurisdiction. But 'intent' for murder does not mean "pre-planned". Heat of the moment intention to do serious harm is enough for a murder conviction in the UK (and, I believe, the US).
In this case, the prosecution accused her of pre-planning as well as intent, and the jury agreed with one or both arguments.