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this post was submitted on 03 Apr 2026
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politics
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IT WAS TOO FUCKING LATE FOR THAT! Harris was the candidate. End of. There was zero possibility of replacing her with somebody more leftist. The choices were only "vote for Harris" or "help Trump." That's it.
Game theory is MATH, not an opinion!
Did you think I wanted that class traitor prosecutor bitch either?! Fuck, no! But, being someone who isn't a goddamn drooling moron, I realized that Trump was even worse and held my nose. That's how the system works, and it does not care how much you or I both hate it.
Nobody was trying to "control people's opinions;" we were trying to stop you from making an objective mathematical error that would destroy us all.
It wasn’t too fucking late for Harris to change messaging though.
You failed then.
Now you are seeing how it was back then. Imagine the guy you're responding to, and 100 more just like him ganging up on ya. And just as angry, stubborn, and mad as he is.
That's how it was back then. lolol
It’s like I never left Reddit lol
Harris is a neoliberal piece of shit. She wasn't going to change, no matter how much any of us whined or threatened to withhold our votes over it!
You could either understand that and work to reduce harm, or fuck up and ruin everyone's lives because you were too stubborn or stupid to accept factual reality.
This is what these people constantly ignore. They reply by calling us stupid shit like "blueMAGA" or a liberal, and it usually terminates the conversation. They know exactly what they are doing.
When in reality, I can only speak for myself, I fucking hate the current Democratic party. Like 99% of them are absolute trash.
That doesn't mean I'm not going to call you out when you're online working overtime to convince left leaning voters in October 2024 not to vote.
But no, we're just dirty liberals who love the DNC and are incapable of criticizing them (just be sure not to check comment history).
Or vote third party. Which I proudly did. And will do again unless the Democrats stop fucking shit up.
So why didn't you speak up? Was it because you knew Lemmy would censor you? Do you think it's right to censor someone for what you just said?
The system is like that because you refuse to support third-party support. By you refusing to validate third parties, they don't have the pull they should have. But if EVERYONE voted third party, guess what? Shit would start to change. You are actually part of the problem, not the solution.
And how did that work out for you? What ended up happening?
That's a lie. "Vote third party" is a subset of "help Trump."
grue, I dont vote for genociders, full stop. Harris was going to continue Bidens support of zionism, thats just a fact. If we must literally feed the bodies of innocents and children into the gears of our "democracy" or it explodes, I say let it explode ASAP, because you'll just be voting for more genocide next election too, wont you.
Have the zionists relinquished their hold on the democratic party? No. Have the dem leaders kicked them out? No.
Maybe if you took the time to take a stand on that too our leaders would see they cant win by taking that position. Your "harm minimization" is short term thinking and just delays the inevitable. Sooner or later this has to happen, so lets do it now instead of after we have even more blood on our hands. You're just spending other people lives to stall for time.
The blood is on your hands anyway, because you had the chance to reduce harm and refused. In fact, it has accelerated and spread because of the actions of people like you.
I knew this would happen. I warned people like you that this would happen. And the last year has proven me correct.
You can deny it all you want, but that doesn't change reality.
Don't use the words game theory and harm reduction. You clearly don't know anything about either.
You are literally ignoring all of game theory based around games with repeated plays. Why? Because it shows the opposite strategy then what you are promoting works better.
When people point out that your vaunted game theory proves you wrong, that is when the phrase harm reduction comes out so you don't have to argue against people correctly pointing out that your strategy fails in the long term.
It's not clever, nor is it subtle.
How was their game theory proven wrong? Voting third party is part of the original calculation. Because of the first past the post system in the US, voting third party in a general election is throwing away your vote. In 2024, it was a spoiler for the Democrats. So it helped Trump. That's game theory.
The aspect of game theory people who espouse it as their rational for voting blue no matter who only applies to games that occur only once.
What strategy wins in the long term over multiple plays is exactly opposite what they espouse and is closer, though not entirely, the strategy espoused by the people they argue against.
We have elections on a repeated basis.
Well said, brother.
~~Thanks for proving my point. I bet ya miss the lemmy times right before the 2024 election, huh? I bet you hate seeing how many people are pro-third party these days! lolol~~ EDIT: A little too much snark, but poster is definitely showing how angry some people can be when it comes to third-party talk.
No, I don't. Why? Because NOW is the time that we SHOULD be trying to replace the neoliberals!
Could you quit your trolling for just a goddamn second and actually COMPREHEND what I've been writing?!
Then maybe you should stop being pissed off and yelling at people who support other parties.
So disagreeing with you is "trolling"?! I don't think that word means what you think it means.
No, this is trolling:
It's telling that you never quote yourself when recounting how 'unfairly' you were treated.
Meh, fair point. I did go a little far with that line. I'll edit.
But I would love your thoughts on seeing so many people being much more open to third parties on Lemmy now. Because the tide is def turning on that subject.
It's great! Because now is the appropriate time for it. Now is the time it can actually work instead of screwing all of us over.
Cool. That means we have to vote for them in elections though. All elections. Even 2028.
Also, the bigger point is that even if everyone who voted third party in 2024 would have voted Harris, she still would have lost. That's how big the margin of her loss was. Trump didn't win because people voted third party.
No, it doesn't mean that at all. You have to vote strategically within the system that exists. You have to vote for progressives in primaries and then still hold your nose and vote for the best candidate that can actually win in general elections (which is not the third party candidate, except in some down-ballot races), until there are enough progressives to actually get the voting reform passed. Then, and only then, will it be viable to vote third party as a matter of straight preference.
(And even then, the need to vote tactically will never be eliminated entirely, BTW.)
The anti-Harris propaganda also discouraged people from voting at all.
What primaries? No one voted for Harris in any 2024 primaries.
Hell, then DNC told States that allowed other candidates in the primary ballots that they wouldn't be counted.
There was no fucking primary. Funny how the ignorant that like to write about game theory like to point to the non-existent primaries as the only appropriate time to try to push the party to the left.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
🤔
Let's see where the goalposts go now.
Sorry, I will move the goal posts a little. There was no fair primary.
Read the Ballot Access Denial subsection of the controversies section on your link.
Nope. Not me. Imma vote for whoever I want, whenever I want.
Guess Dems should have picked a better candidate who would have overcome that. You all lost against Trump. Trump!! Of all people! lol
No, we lost against Trump. Me and you. Because you've comprehensively fucked your own future, too, even if you haven't figured it out yet.
Pretending you are separate from the consequences is an incredible expression of privilege.
I think deep down, they know it but their ego isn't allowing them to accept it because then that means they need to take responsibility
No, just you. My future hasn't been fucked at all. I've been a prepper since before there was even a word for it.
See, I didn't trust either side, so I made the necessary changes to my life that made it so I'm untouchable. Started doing several elections ago. Way up here north in the remote interior. I own my own land, my house, and my rigs outright, all paid off. I have zero debt. I've got enough saved up that I don't need to work ever again. I haven't had to work a job for the last 6 years.
I live in an unorganized borough with basically no property taxes. I'm zero debt and fully off-grid. Well water right on my property, plus rainwater and snowmelt catchment for backup, we get plenty of precip up here. I run a solid garden (made my own greenhouses to extend seasons), keep chickens, goats, and a few other animals. Me and my gf hunt and fish to fill the freezer. Around here we eat moose, deer, salmon, whatever the fuck is in season. Solar panels and battery bank power everything, with propane for backup and lotsa wood for heat when needed.
My neighbors are all cut from the same cloth. All of us are independent, trustworthy folks living the exact same way. We can't depend on anyone else to bail us out anyway. lol
Guy, nothing you or Trump or the Democrats or any politician say or do down there has any effect on me or my life whatsoever.
You can't even drive to where I am. Only fly in, take the railroad flagstop, boat, or snowmachine depending on the season. That's why the guy trying to doxx me had such a tough time of it.
Picture an Amish-style self-sufficient life but Alaska-rugged, non-religious, and I still run tech like solar, batteries, and satellite internet where it actually helps. Politics doesn't touch any of this. Never has, never will.
I'm as free as one can be in the current world. And most aren't tough enough to even worry about trying to change that. It's fucking awesome!! :)
None of that is going to stop ICE gestapo from dragging you off to a concentration camp for being a leftist.
lololol ICE doesn't do that. If they did, there would be no one left on Lemmy! I was born a raised in the US, and my family was too, for generations. Ain't no one coming for me, brother. lol
Besides, ICE wouldn't even be able to find this village. I'd love to see them try to get here! lololol
The party I voted for would have dismantled them. Democrats wouldn't have.
Interesting fact about how Democratic Party has dealt with ICE in the past:
Under President Obama (2009–2017, Democratic administration): Record-high formal removals (“deportations”): The Obama administration carried out more than 3.1 million ICE removals over eight years, with a peak of over 407,000 in fiscal year 2012 alone. An increase of over 70% in criminal removals compared to the final year of the prior (Bush) administration.
Expanded programs: Obama expanded the Bush-era Secure Communities program, which led to more local-federal cooperation for identifying and removing people with criminal records (or sometimes minor offenses). Critics on the left called him “deporter-in-chief” because of the scale.
Under President Biden (2021–January 2025, Democratic administration):
Continued large-scale removals and returns: Through early 2024, the Biden administration had carried out about 1.1 million formal deportations (removals/returns), on pace to match or approach Trump’s first-term totals in similar categories. In addition, there were roughly 3 million Title 42 expulsions at the border (pandemic-era public-health returns, overwhelmingly under Biden).
These are straight from government data and nonpartisan trackers like the Migration Policy Institute and Pew.
So like I said, both parties suck. The party I voted for wouldn't have done that shit. That's why I voted for them, and why I didn't vote republican or democrat. :)
Yet. They're already openly talking about purging 100 million people, and a lot of them would certainly be natural-born citizens.
Irrelevant. It's unfortunate but acceptable for larger numbers of people to be removed, if they have due process and thus actually "deserved" (in the view of the law) to be removed.
What matters is that Trump is using ICE to do things like terrorize brown people's neighborhoods, imprison people in concentration camps en masse without due process, illegally rendition people to foreign prisons, and murder protestors in the street.
Hasn't happened. Won't happen.
Very relevant. You are wondering why so many people are against the Democratic party now. That's one of the reasons. All of this could have been avoided if the Democrats really cared about people and picked good candidates. They lost to Trump TWICE!
Twice! Think about that. You can keep simping for them all you want, but I'll vote for who I want to win. No nose holding for me. :)
They were specifically talking about voting for third party in the 2024 general election. They weren't yelling at people who support other parties.
Right, and people are free to vote however they want, in any election. People are allowed to vote for who they want to win. Third party or otherwise.
Yeah and if they did it in 2024, they should accept the consequences of their actions, which includes ridicule.
I'm perfectly fine with the ridicule, because I was right. And I totally accept the consequences of my actions, because I was right.
And this discussion started out by me saying that you all censored opinions and tried to control the narrative on here back in 2024.
How'd that work out for ya? Differing opinions on Lemmy got deleted. I saw people who criticized the two-party system got banned and accused of being russian agents.
All because Lemmy was scared of losing the election, at the time. Your whole "oh, it was a different time then though" reasoning sounds very very familiar to what other people of a certain mindset think. Hmmm...
I saw some good independent thinkers be shoo'd off of Lemmy. I saw false accusations and witch hunts happening.
And what did that censorship accomplish? What did trying to silence people accomplish?
NOTHING. You all lost to Trump. For a second time! By a margin so large, that even if all of the third-party voters had voted for Harris, she still would have lost.
I proudly voted third party, and I'll proudly vote third party again. I will never hold my nose to vote or vote or the "lesser evil." I'll vote for who I want to win. Like I always have. And I always will.
I'm very proud of myself and the people who stood against the hate on here. :)
In case ya don't quite get it: “Democratic National Committee officials who crafted the party’s postmortem on its loss to President Donald Trump in the 2024 election reportedly determined that the Biden administration’s support for Israel’s genocidal assault on Gaza cost Kamala Harris votes, contributing to her defeat.”
https://www.commondreams.org/news/kamala-harris-gaza-2024