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Dilemma
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2026
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Democrats can't win without ceasing to support the genocide of Palestinians.
So you want trump to win? /s
You say that but op has said that seriously before
Independents can't win without a base.
seems the democrats can’t win with a base. guess they are going to have to change their position…
I don't care if independents win or if the democrats start to become slightly less evil. But for fuck's sake, the democrats victory should be contingent upon them pulling support for Israel. And they should have no problem doing that. Anything short of that is horrifying.
I don't care how the Democrats win, I just want Trump to lose. I'm scared.
I get that. I think we all are.
There we go. We now return you to your previously selected fascism, already in progress.
Fascism for thee, palestinians, but not for me? We should accept conducing genocide abroad as the cost of having less fascism here?
How about the democrats just be minimally acceptable human beings? No? No it's the voters fault for not voting for the slightly less demonic demons. All the stuff going on domestically is terrible but it's a drop in the bucket of all the terrible shit the democrats and republicans are both happy to do. You think the handful of protesters murdered by ICE are bad? You think the dozens killed in their detention camps are bad? Well you're god damn right they are...and you'll be really pissed when you hear about the tens of thousands ruthlessly slaughtered in Gaza!
I'm sorry, is not supporting a genocide just too much to ask? If you say "yes!" think about what that means. If you say "no!" then what the hell are you talking about, shilling for those ghouls?
Let’s look at it this way. There are two choices. (We can talk about why that’s bad some other time.)
Presuming you are a US voter, you will be supporting one of those choices. (Not choosing, or “intentional grounding”is support for one of the choices.)
Okay? We on the same page so far?
I disagree quite fundamentally that not voting for the democrats is the same choice as voting for republicans...but it sounds like you're going somewhere, so sure, we can talk about it!
If you frame it this way, you have two choices:
A. vote for the democratic party; or B. not vote for the democratic party.
Same page so far.
Whatever you need to tell yourself to feel morally superior I guess.
At the end of the day the question is, if the people who didn’t vote Democrat due to Palestine would have voted, would that have been enough for the Republicans to loose? If so, you are kind of responsible for the ICE raids.
Of course the follow up question: If you care so much about Palestine, why are you choosing to not vote against the party that is very openly on Israel side in this conflict and absolutely will not do anything to pressure Netanyahu? Did you really believe Trumps claims about being the president of peace?
Which third party are you advocating?
Morally superior? Dude, I’m not the one poo-poo-ing everyone else’s voting record. It’s not what I do to feel morally superior, it’s what I do to feel moral at all. I will not support or endorse genocide. That means I will not support or endorse the democrats unless they stop support for Israel’s genocide.
I absolutely reject this idea that I’m responsible for what the republicans do. They’re fascists, and they can get fucked. So are the democrats on most issues. That’s in them. And if you take some extreme view of morality whereby you’re morally responsible for the actions of other moral agents (unless you deny that the politicians are human beings with their own agency), then fine, I am responsible by that metric and I think it’s a rounding error. It’s upsetting to you, a comfortable western (maybe white) liberal because they’ve started killing a handful of people in the street here…but they’re killing tens of thousands there so…what’s it matter? If I vote for democrats (unchanged) I’m responsible for 75,000 deaths, if do not I’m responsible for 75,003?
Anyway, that’s all bullshit. I’m not responsible for these people.
Btw your description of the republicans (very openly on Israel side in this conflict and absolutely will not do anything to pressure Netanyahu) seems to apply to the democrats too. I don’t deny the republicans are worse though, so I’ll answer the question I think you’re asking. The reason I’m “choosing not to vote against” the slightly more bad party is that it involves voting for a genocide. That’s why. That’s it. I think I’ve been clear about that. I don’t think it’s complicated or hard to understand.
Maybe the pressure and desire to win will make the democrats change…I hope so…but in either case, if the genocide is carried on it will be without my endorsement, thanks.
They are morally superior, you're perfectly fine with the deaths of countless Palestinians as long as it means you and yours stay comfortable
Centrists were fine with either outcome as long as no one had the option of an anti-genocide candidate.
Not voting at all means a MAGA vote has more influence than your non-vote.
Well I hope the democrats do something about that.
Maybe our non-votes will lead to a non-genocide option, and if so, great. That would be pretty awesome influence from those non-votes. If not, if the democrats simply must support genocide even if it means losing over and over and over again, at least I didn’t endorse it. That’s their choice, not mine.
What the fuck does “maga influence” matter in the face of genocide?
You can stop pretending that you think it's bad.
I think the two party system is bad, but I don't want my family to die. Lemmy users said those two opinions are opposites
I think genocide is bad. People who love genocide more than anything will NEVER admit unprompted that democrats have no business supporting it.
No matter what it means for their families. Maybe if centrists has quelled their bloodlust for a few months, we wouldn't be here.
I'm scared and angry, so I want to blame as many people as I can. I blame the Democrats for supporting Israel, I blame the non voters for not voting, and I blame the people who were bad-mouthing Biden and Harris in 2024 for making more non voters. I'm blaming everyone! You're all too busy arguing with each other to stop the literal pedophile Nazi from taking over the country. I don't care how bad it was in 2024, this is worse! They're taking people off the streets, they're cancelling trans people's licences, they're bombing Iran! This is worse! THIS IS WORSE!
This is the package deal centrists forced on everyone else because they didn't want to say no to netanyahu, consequences be damned.
This was what progressives warned you would happen if you didn't stop your support for genocide. The ones of us who voted for harris correctly told you that not everyone would vote for the genocide you wanted.
None of you listened. Not fucking one. You all just screeched abuse louder.
You fucked up and got too much of the only thing you wanted.
What did the trans americans in my family do to deserve being put in a concentration camp?
Not a damn thing.
Your party only cared about netanyahu and ignored every single warning. They preferred netanyahu over your family.
The people who wanted genocide got their genocide. At home and abroad.
the Democrats have been incrementally progressing the Palestinian genocide, which is what they are objecting to.
Amen. Hell, I wouldn't even say it's incremental. Biden provided at least 18 billion more than trump 1.
You'd rather cross your arms, watch it all burn down and then smugly* say "well it's the best we could do."
All I want is for the democrats to even say they're going to make incremental progress, to pretend they're interested in progress at all, and they won't do that. Maybe if they're scared enough of continuing to lose, they will. I'm not counting on it.
So what incremental progress are you talking about?
Maybe incremental progress from the 16k people in ICE detention when biden took over from Trump 1 would not look like 40k in ICE detention when he left...idk? Maybe Biden could have made incremental progress by not providing Israel with at least $18 billion more in military aid to support the genocide than trump 1 did?
The smallest increment of progress is ceasing military aid to israel to support its genocide of Palestinians. That would be incremental. From there maybe we could see aid to palestine, idk. Fuck you for voting for genocide and then saying I'm the bad guy. There's no "oh they killed 20,000 children last year, and this year they only killed 18,000, that's incremental progress we should be proud of!"
You stand for absolutely nothing, you deserve Trump and worse