PM Carney says Conservative MP Jeneroux crossing the floor to the Liberals (www.ctvnews.ca)

submitted 3 days ago by ValueSubtracted@startrek.website to c/canada@lemmy.ca

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[-] deeferg@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

I'm almost afraid to help take their side, because I agree that the NDP did this to themselves with the infighting. Now before you go telling me that my brain is mush, let me try and explain why people voted ABC this last election.

They held on to Singh too long, he wasn't drawing people in to the party. Say what you will but Polievres attacks at him driving a Maserati was successful at having people I know that support NDP questioning why a rich lawyer was running the party.

There are also the other end of the NDP fan spectrum that I know from my time in construction, the types that used to see them as the labour party. They have absolutely lost that title on Ontario to the Conservative party, and have instead been positioned as the "human rights" party. Everyone who used to support the NDP on that front got tired of hearing about Gaza over the election cycle, and didn't feel the NDP should be as vocal about that as they were.

Then there was the TFW/immigration support they went heavy on during the election, when all polling was showing the unpopularity of those systems, and wanting the numbers to be lessened. The NDP used to be against the TFW program, and it was positioned very successfully that they were supporting of it this last election.

You talk about how they formed the coalition to get things to work, I agree, that was the right move to get Pharmacare. But all that did was position the Liberals as a party willing to make those changes, and in the past election cycle, there was little chance voters would give up a party willing to do that for the Conservatives.

Now the fear should be who will lead them next. I watched the NDP leadership debate last night. There aren't really any people running that have charisma and the ability to get people behind their cause. I think we'll see the NDP suffer for another election cycle or two federally.

[-] Soup@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Ok, so putting aside mush comments, let’s talk about those issues.

Singh was around a long time. Could he have been better? I won’t say no. But why would people who question that turn towards a banker who campaigned under the banner of a center-right party?

Human rights and labour support are the same thing. You cannot have one without the other, they are deeply intertwined. The conservatives only have the branding of labour and only if you let them say it. In Ontario, with Doug Ford, how is a rich nepo baby who commits oodles of white-collar crime, spends too much time trying to be the mayor of Toronto, and not doing good things for the working folk the guy who gets to be considered working class?

I have no comment on the immigration thing.

The only reason I would ever consider that excuse for the coalition being a bad idea is the absolutely embarrassingly high levels of political ignorance we in Canada are capable of.

I’ve gotta watch the debate, it’s on my list of things to do, but honestly can we just drop the whole charisma angle? We’re talking about why progressive voters would vote for the Liberals and you cannot tell me that Carney was Captain Charisma. Even today I just see a horribly beige, empty suit who’s just a puppet for allowing provate companies and the US to run roughshod over us. He’s painfully forgettable, except that we will be feeling all the weakened environmental protections deeply for a very long time, so drop the “charisma” bullshit. Besides, PP was being dweeby enough that my own, historically conservative, father voted directly against him(I’m from Ottawa) and they still got votes. Progressives are supposed to be better than this and if we need someone to show up with purotechnics in order to be energized to do the right thing then that’s beyond sad.

It all comes back to the idea that there is no reason you can give that could not be thrown directly back, and harder, at the Liberals and that I’m speaking directly to all the people who stomped all over our progressive option just to elect an obvious right-wing grifter. The Liberals just need to show up and they get treated like the defauly but the NDP need to do a whole song and dance just to continue to be ignored? And you think that makes sense?

[-] deeferg@lemmy.ca 1 points 23 hours ago

The problem is that with all of your counter points, you keep talking about "reason". This is politics, Doug Ford wouldn't still be in charge if people voted on reason. You keep making the same problem that the NDP has been making in expecting the whole population to use reason and think rationally as well. They don't, and you and the rest of the party leadership need to realize that.

The charisma thing is a real consideration, because the NDP have proven they need that to be able to get ahead of the other two parties. Everyone has spoken to Jacks charisma being the one thing that got the NDP as close as they've been, but now you are telling me that charisma isn't important? Especially when they're trying to rebuild the party? I'm sorry but we will be in complete disagreement on that one. Pierre doesn't need charisma, he's at the head of the other party that won't raise taxes in the masses, so hence not being in the NDPs tough spot.

I tried using the term "Human Rights" because that's what I believe them to be, but a lot of the people I was referring to, would call them "identity politics". I'm sorry to say it, because I'd rather acceptance be the default as well, but people who would otherwise support the NDP didn't this election cycle due to all of the noise around identity politics. I'm also from Ottawa, so I'm sure you know the Lanark county types I'm referring to, I grew up around them.

It's just an uphill battle to rebuild a party, and I'm not sure how the leadership hopefuls will manage to pull it off. My fingers are crossed for them, I've always been an NDP supporter but want to feel like I'm not just throwing my vote in the trash. Even in my "always NDP" riding it went red last time. I just want to see them get back to the basics (hence Ashton being my hopeful til the AI thing)