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US ambassador to Israel says US no longer pursuing goal of independent Palestinian state
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2025
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Thank God we saved Palestine from Biden, right protest voters?
Right?
Oh boy you rustled some jimmies. Idk that I've seen a single comment where every response was down voted for being shitty takes.
I'm sure all of those third party and non voters are jerking off all over themselves for saving Palestine and ending the genocide through Donald Trump.
Hey, at least they've got their pedestals to look down on us from.
That might be an understatement lol.
I'm still getting comments, threats, and suggestions to commit suicide on this post, and other comments and posts I've made going back at least a year.
They're so mad they're been browsing my comment history to find more things to get pissed off about lol.
I love pissing off fascists and all the attention let's me know I'm on the right track.
Same. I've had cancer wished on me, suicide, and a few other things. Like you said, it's solidly let me know the kind of people that I'm criticizing.
Someone lost a friend in Lebanon, and that's sad. I'm sure if they were still here, they'd be stoked that their friend effectively supported Donald Trump to help out though.
The original comment is a shitty take. Biden was sending billions in weapons to israel to carry out its mission of genocide. He continued doing this even though people were begging him to stop during an election when he needed their votes. Harris continued his rhetoric. You and Chainweasel think that somehow Biden/Harris would have changed course after they didn't need the votes. Now you're talking about people jerking all over themselves while you and Chainweasel admonish voters for not picking the correct genocide-enabler-in-chief. Hope you have good balance on that pedestal of yours because it's really high up.
You got worse than what you were protesting. Good job. Huge success!
Congrats to the democrats for prioritizing genocide over beating trump, I guess.
Ok, so assume all things equal, everything happens the same in Gaza... Trump is still significantly worse in every other facet. So yea, all third party voters and non voters are fucking moronic Trump supporters. A bunch of ignorant fuckwits that think that they made a difference by standing up against the establishment. Congrats, we got Trump.
There's only so many ways to say that there were two outcomes last November, and everyone knew that. If y'all can't wrap your head around that reality 6 months later, then that says everything about your ability to reason.
Why I don't get is why the democrats ran a chicken race with democracy for a widely despised policy when they knew the stakes. We can call the electorate morons all day and even have point, but they are supposed to be smart.
The why doesn't strike me as hard. A number of domestic voting blocks in critical swing states will mobilize hard against any perceived flagging of support of Israel. It will play poorly in the press broadly, and opponents will successfully fundraise on the issue.
The worst part is the party is being entirely realistic. Jeremy Corbyn showed what happens when a party leadership is not sufficiently supportive of Israel. Any left of center leader will be tagged as radical, but the accusations of harboring antisemitic elements lost labour what should have been a landslide victory.
Continuing to write Israel a blank check may be widely despised, but the left might hold their nose and vote blue anyway. The left is famously never satisfied, so what else is new?
The most basic job responsibility of a politician is to get elected. Democrats' only platform is "at least we're not as bad as the other guys" but the other guys only get worse and worse while democrats follow along, making sure to be just different enough to make people think they have a choice, but not different enough to change the course of our country and its servitude to the ultra-rich.
You're arguing with people on here who most likely voted for Harris. I know I did. However, who I vote for doesn't matter when democrats are so bad at looking appealing and fighting for a winning chance that my vote is drowned out by others not paying attention or who are gerrymandered away (or otherwise suppressed).
The main argument was never "Trump is no worse than Harris". To argue against this is fighting windmills.
The argument has always been, of the two candidates, one of which will win, which is less bad? People that voted third party or didn't vote decided that Trump is less bad.
No it wasn't. That's disregarding a heap of systemic criticism and historical and moral considerations.
1 million upvotes for you. "Hope you're happy Trump got elected. Palestine is doing great now" etc. is such a tired cliche at this point. I'm astonished that it gets upvoted every. single. time. Harris literally said she wouldn't do anything different from Biden. She would have allowed/financed the genocide all the same, but she'd be calling the "tragic loss of life" a "very complex issue." I have no idea where this fantasy comes from that she would suddenly be the hero who stands up to Israel.
She would have been better for the world as a whole than Trump. If you truely think that things would have played out exactly the same in Gaza with Harris as POTUS, then it still comes down to two candidates last November, and every person knew that one of them would win. So a vote for Trump, a non vote, or a third party vote directly benefited Trump.
"Oh but I voted against genocide", fuck no you didn't. You voted in a manner that directly put Trump in charge, which was the worst possible outcome.
To be clear, I voted for Harris, and I implored everyone I know to vote for Harris, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I will always vote for the farthest-left candidate in the general, full-stop. I'm not arguing that both sides are the same, or that Harris wouldn't have been a better choice for 100 reasons outside of the genocide issue. I'm arguing that Harris gave no indication that she would defend Palestine or even recognize the genocide at all. She might well have done those things, but she didn't campaign on that, so I don't know why anyone is defending her on the issue. Establishment Dems can't seem to get it through their heads that progressive policies are popular, so we keep getting general elections between an absolute monster and a neolib Dem saying, "Vote for me or you'll get the monster!" That might be the reality, but it's not a platform.
I live in a blue state, and I had people around me arguing that whether they voted third-party or didn't vote at all, they would be able to sleep at night knowing that A. they didn't vote for genocide and B. the state would go blue anyway. I don't agree with that position at all. I want third parties to be represented in the US, but that starts at the local level and in the primaries. By the general election it's too late and we realistically have two options. I also believe that shutting down any criticism of the Dem candidate (e.g. a now-banned user told me to kill myself) is a good way to alienate people and discourage them from engaging with the process at all. The right has banned nuance from their discourse, and I refuse to allow the same thing to happen around me.
I agree with you on everything you wrote.
I'm not trying to say that Harris would have been good for Palestine, or even a good POTUS. I'm saying she was the less bad option overall in the election. I don't know that anything would be different with Israel had she won, but I think there was a better chance that she would have done something good over Trump doing something good. That could still be a negligible chance, but it was the better of two chances.
Like you said, local elections and primaries (when they're held, but that's separate from this overall conversation) are when to vote for different parties and more fringe candidates. One of two people is already the winner in the election by the time November rolls around, so it comes down to least bad.
It could be argued that trump is actually better for the world (but not for the US) since he's ruining the US's soft power by tearing up alliances and expressing blatant corruption, making the US look incompetent and completely untrustworthy. Now other countries are finding alternatives, making the US not as central as it used to be. He is perhaps the most effective tool in helping the US empire fall.
You could also argue that this is accelerationism, but to be fair, democrats take advantage of accelerationism all the time (e.g. "republicans have repealed reproductive rights, donate even more money to us so we can fight it" while letting things get worse and worse, barely putting up a fight to make long-lasting changes and indeed letting things get this bad so they can position themselves as the only "solution").
I doubt that anyone ever claimed Trump would end the genocide on Palestinians from outside a troll farm in St. Petersburg.
Some of them I'm sure thought it, but definitely a minority. It's the fact that Gaza was used as a means to target Harris, and against all evidence suggesting it would be the same or worse, didn't do the same to condemn Trump.
Or she could’ve just not had a genocidal platform. That would have made things much easier.
You're right, it would have, but the reality was Trump or Harris. It was still an extremely easy decision, but it would have been better if the less shitty candidate was even less shitty.
Plenty of people in Michigan did.
People on this very site did, absolutely, and some of them were definitely Americans
Get over yourself mate. We haven't memory holed genocide Joe.
To the downvoters. Biden supplied the weapons, the political cover and the witchunt against domestic dissent. These policies were all continued by Trump.
Matthew Miller and Blinken shed lots of crocodile tears but continued to support Netanyahu for 18 months. There was no serious effort at stopping the genocide under the Democrats
Great, now you got the genocide still going AND a fascist takeover of your country, with even less possibility to change anything and plenty of distractions to the Palestinians cause because your country is falling apart around you.
Genocide Joe walked so Fascist Donald could run.
Fascism didn't start in January. It's been a steady, forty-year march aided and abetted by every president since Carter.
I generally agree with your premise up until the point where you argue for accelerating the rise of fascism.
NOTHING has been gained by this, NOTHING changed for the better, it only got harder to bring about change. The people who could've mobilized and fought for those causes are now busy trying to stop the gestapo from deporting their neighbors.
Either you're putting up a straw man or you didn't read what I wrote correctly.
He correctly understood the context in which you wrote it, which was defending fascist-accelerationist non-voters and third-party voters.
Okay, Jan.
I won't even bother entertaining you or them, but just for funsies, go look up who gave Tom Homan his first federal appointment.
You're welcome to your incorrect interpretation, and I hope you have a pleasant evening.
It’s a correct interpretation dude. You may not like it, but it’s correct.
As a lib I am deeply ashamed that we have missed a historic opportunity of electing a black woman to unquestioningly, unequivocally and fully support the destruction of Palestine all the while lying about "working round the clock to stop the Israel-Hamas war".
Well, you got a orange man who wants to accelerate the destruction, ethnically cleanse the population and build a hotel on the ashes. At least he's too dumb to lie about it. Yay?
how the fck this has so many votes ? that scum did nothing but lie about it for a year. that trash had failed upward his entire political carrier by bankrolling with aipac blood money.
he is the biggest reason harris lost and was probably told to do so by israel.
The zionists won. It doesn't need reminding.
A movement tried to make Palestine a relevant political issue for the electorate. It got stomped out. I don't get this sentiment to keep stomping.
There are those of us who will never see the protest (non-)voters as allies again due to their willingness to ignore the basic math of the election and enable fascists to win to "prove a point". They are a step away from collaborators and hold part of the responsibility for every person who has been kidnapped by ICE, the end of a possibility of a free Palestine, every murdered protestor, every trans youth who commits suicide because they are denied care, every child that dies from measles.
Performative bullshit driven by the desire to feel moral superiority while helping get a fascist elected and undoing a century of civil and societal progress doesn't make one an ally. It makes them useful idiots to the far-right and betrayers of people in vulnerable populations, everyone whose life is ruined by global warming.
I might forgive this who take responsibility and try to lend a hand in the multi-generation effort to try repairing the damage that has been in under 200 days (protest voters have fucked over GenX through Alpha, at the very least). But, as long as I live, I'll not forget, nor will I allow them or anyone else to do so, lest someone make the mistake of thinking that they would stand up for anyone in any effective manner capable of positive change.
Remember when Biden literally voted against the two-state solution at the UN?
Israel is done. It'll take a few years more, but Trump abandoned Israel and the world is turning its back. Palestine will be free, and only then you also will be free.
Until then, you'll keep bouncing back between openly fascist and polite fascist like the good little wage slave that you are.
This was Biden's genocide, you can never take that away from him.
This is a pathetic take.
Biden did not order the attacks, stop spreading bullshit. This is solely on Israel.
Think a bit before talking. If i give an arm to someone knowing exactly that he will kill domeone then i am complicit with thr crime of murder. Same with biden and trump
The genocide would have been impossible without Biden.
Not without Netanyahu.
Could we say there's a difference in rhetoric not action?
Look, I was the first person in threads to call these people out back in February. And March... But it's June. This shit accomplishes nothing now beyond creating more unnecessary division.
I don't even disagree, it's just not productive to constantly harp on this when we've all heard it a million times
You such a cultist.
What are you accomplishing here?
The protest voters amounted to some ~800k last time I did my research (check my profile for a post that goes over this).
RFK forgot to pull out of the general election, and he amassed some ~1 million votes.
Literally the Trump admin's own hubris cancelled out the Uncommitted Movement's efforts.
But sure: let's ignore Biden's deep hatred and racism for Palestinians while ignoring that emocrats lost more voters than what new voters became eligible between 2020 & 2024.
Let's also ignore Biden's awful, self-serving aim to run against Trump in 2024, when previously he had said he was a one-term candidate. And this old fuck couldn't back out of the race until he was cumpstered and dumpstered on the national stage, leaving Kamala only months to prepare a campaign. Let's not forget that there were people on voting day that didn't even know Kamala was running (they assumed Biden).
Let's also ignore Kamala's decent into fascism-lite, saying things like "the strongest military in the entire world" at the DNC, following along with right wing framing on immigration, and inviting Liz fucking Cheney on the campaign trail. This is also ignoring Kamala's horrendously tone deaf policies aimed towards business and home owners, when most people don't own businesses and don't own.
There is a generational divide in the country on Gaza. Young people under, say, 40 oppose everything this country has aided and abetted regarding Gaza. Older than 40, people don't give a shit.
So, have you just dated yourself? Are you too much of a bitch and coward to stick up for state mandated murder abroad? Or are you one of those soy libs that ignores all of America's war crimes yet points out everything wrong with China?
American foreign policy is uniparty. If you don't protest that, you're complicit.