Edit - This is a post to the meta group of Blåhaj Lemmy. It is not intended for the entire lemmyverse. If you are not on Blåhaj Lemmy and plan on dropping in to offer your opinion on how we are doing things in a way you don't agree with, your post will be removed.
==
A user on our instance reported a post on lemmynsfw as CSAM. Upon seeing the post, I looked at the community it was part of, and immediately purged all traces of that community from our instance.
I approached the admins of lemmynsfw and they assured me that the models with content in the community were all verified as being over 18. The fact that the community is explicitly focused on making the models appear as if they're not 18 was fine with them. The fact that both myself and one a member of this instance assumed it was CSAM, was fine with them. I was in fact told that I was body shaming.
I'm sorry for the lack of warning, but a community skirting the line trying to look like CSAM isn't a line I'm willing to walk. I have defederated lemmynsfw and won't be reinstating it whilst that community is active.
Their sidebar rules actively allowed "childlike" content before this occurred.
yet none of the top posts are child like.
Well you know, except for the one that started this whole thing, and the first couple I saw when I had a closer look at the community...
That does not seem to be the prevailing opinion from people who have actually seen the content.
People who use a community looking for "child like" content from their models probably aren't the unbiased sample group you think they are
I’m a little confused. Above, a comment went really into detail as to why they believe this was just a misunderstanding. One thing they mentioned was this:
Now… you actually replied to the comment that I’m quoting from. So you saw that the only reason that “childlike” was included was because it was copy/pasted - not because of anything malicious. So, did you not actually read their whole comment? Or did you read it and decide to continue with this talking point despite knowing it’s flawed?
I looked at something that looked like CSAM. I looked at the community, and saw more content that was sitting right on the border of CSAM. The sidebar told me childlike content was allowable.
There was no misunderstanding. My exposure to the content in that community was content that appeared to my eyes to be CSAM.
Telling me that if I looked hard enough I would see that they're all adults, or that "childlike" was only there because of a copy and paste doesn't fundamentally alter that. I don't care that they're all adults. I care that many of them are framed to look like they're not.
This is not a misunderstanding. This isn't ignorance. This isn't confusion.
This is a difference in expectations and understanding of acceptable content.
I’m saying that right now you know that the term “childlike” was only there due to a copy/paste issue, not because of anything malicious going on. And I know you know this as you responded to a comment explicitly pointing it out. In spite of this you’ve continued to parrot the same talking points regarding “childlike” appearing in the sidebar.
And again, I can’t tell if this is due to you not actually fully reading the comment, or if it’s that the truth is simply less convenient and you’d rather continue using the same talking points despite knowing they’re inaccurate.
This has nothing to do with your initial impressions and has everything to do with what you’re doing right now, in this very thread. Your reply somehow has virtually nothing to do with what I called you out on, as nowhere did I criticize or doubt your initial reaction or overall decision. I’m solely criticizing your continued use of the “childlike” term talking point, despite knowing the truth around why it was there.
You're still under the misapprehension that I didn't read, or didn't understand.
A community that actively fosters content that looks like it is being generated by underage teenagers is a problem.
The wording of the sidebar was part of it. The reported image was part of it. The images I saw when I looked closer at the community were part of it.
It looked like CSAM to me. The admins of the instance in question are ok with it.
And that's an irreconcilable difference.
The fact that it's not CSAM, and only looks like it, doesn't change that
Once again, I’m not criticizing your initial impressions. Please actually read my comments. They were perfectly understandable given what you saw at the time.
What I’m criticizing is what you’re doing now. Presently. With all the information that’s available to you at the moment.
So again, within this thread you learned from another commenter why the term “childlike” was used. Not because of anything malicious, but because of them copy/pasting.
You learned this, and despite that continued to use the “childlike” term as evidence to your point, knowing that it was inaccurate.
Again, to be clear, I’m not criticizing your initial impressions when you first discovered the community. Hell, I’m not even criticizing the overall decision you came to. What I am criticizing is your current, continued use of talking points that you know are false.
You misunderstand. They're not false. Whether or not it was a dictionary quote is irrelevant. It wasn't accidental and there is no way the moderators of the community were unaware and continued to remain unaware of the implications of that wording. It was a deliberate choice even if it was a dictionary quote
Honestly do you have a fetish for making people see sexually explicit content they don’t want to see?
It seems like that’s what you’re arguing for.
Well I guess piper peri is out of a job then.
their most popular content is not child like, they changed their rules, and somehow you don't see that you too are biased. and again, no one in this thread has seen the post that you started this over.
Of course I'm biased. I haven't tried to hide that. I'm not approaching this from a dispassionate, disconnected perspective and have no desire to pretend I am. I had a strong emotional response to something that looked like CSAM. I saw more content that looked like CSAM. I saw a sidebar that actively encourages childlike content. I got told by the admins of the community that it was fine with them.
So I defederated, and it doesn't impact you at all, as you're not on either instance.
And I would do so again. And your snarky replies aren't going to change that.
The constant defederation of various instances for biased reasons does affect everyone who uses lemmy. Instances lead by emotions will degrade this entire system leading to it's downfall. beehaw stopped growing when they defederate from other major instances, and it will happen here too.
My goal isn't "grow the community as big as possible"
My goal is to create a safe community space for queer and gender diverse folk. That goal is more important to me than the idea of "federate with everyone"
Sounds like you are creating a safe space for yourself, damn what the LGBT community wants.
Depending on who you ask, I "don't understand", I "haven't read sufficiently", I'm "body shaming" or, as you claim, I'm acting selfishly.
The truth is it's none of those things.
I'm trans myself, and I'm quite clear on what I've done and why. I understand that not everyone agrees, and that's fine. There are other instances and communities out there, and most of them federate with lemmynsfw. I am doing my best to foster a safe community as best I know how. That's never going to be what everyone wants, and even for those who do want the same, the specifics of how to achieve it will vary from person to person.
If the vision of this space fits your needs, it's here for you. If it doesn't, there are no doubt others that do fit your needs. And you're welcome to exist in both spaces if that suits your needs. But what I'm not going to do is turn around and enable content that can be easily mistaken for CSAM because people think I should.
We are railing against you because you took sweeping action without consulting the community you are tasked with leading. We want a community where we, as LGBT folk, have a voice and input on how a things are run. But if we are cut from the conversation "for our safety," how is our voice heard? Whats the next instance you'll ban to protect our little childlike eyes without asking the people you are trying to provide safe haven to? You keep saying you are trying to protect our precious little innocent eyes, but it's starting to look like we are just little toys in Ada's playpen, subject to her impulsive whims. We are tired of people telling us what we need, we want input damnit!
If your request is "I want to have access to a space that generates content that can be confused for CSAM", it's not going to happen.
What about the other communities on there? They don't have CSAM but you cut them off all the same. It's not about CSAM, it's about you wanting to flex what hilariously little power you have.
It feels like it’s more about you wanting to force pornography on people that clearly aren’t interested
You can go join a different community.
Spin up your own even, and defederate with blahaj if it bothers you so much. That’s what the fediverse is for.
Not for you to have a temper tantrum that easily accessible CSAM was pulled away from you.
then why federate with anyone at all?
People have a voice in a community, Ada.
If that voice is "we want access to content that can be mistaken for CSAM", it's not a voice that is going to get a say
What about we want a community discussion about defederating an entire instance for one community. Idgaf about CSAM, this is about you forcing your insecurities on the whole community. What fuckin' kind of safe space is this for us if we get smacked for deviating from what you find acceptable? Why do we, the people you are trying to "protect," not get a say in how this community is run? Why do we have to cut off a whole instance because you can't find the "block community" button. And then there's the censorship. You are deleting comments from people outside the instance, BUT ONLY IF THEY DISAGREE WITH YOU. That's some ol' double standard bullshit. I'm callin' you out for being a shitty moderator, that's all.
A community with content that looks like CSAM attracts people looking for content that looks like CSAM. Blocking the community doesn't stop us federating with that content.
I mean, whatever your feelings on the community that prompted this, lemmynsfw has another community that is explicitly focused on people who look like they're underage. That one is explicitly designed to attract people who are drawn to CSAM. The admins of lemmynsfw have also let that community stand.
lemmynsfw is not a safe space
Feel free to try that again without the name calling
I didn't call you any names, I criticized your ability to have an adult conversation.
This is mostly unrelated to defederating from lemmynsfw.com . However is is possible for next time to take screenshots or archives of the other instance's rules and relavant policy decisions by admins? I understand not wanting to screenshot the content, and I trust your judgement on things. But it seems like rules/policies get changed after you observe and act on them (disingenuous or otherwise), so having a recording to show what you observed would be helpful. Even to people outside blahaj as we may care about those changes, and want to observe a pattern.
Otherwise, thanks for running an instance, and taking some time to actually care about and moderate the content.