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Consent machine
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2025
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Hey does Pepperidge farms remember all the fucking morons on Lemmy urging not to vote for Harris because she was allegedly complicit in genocide? I sure as shit do.
Know what's gonna be objectively worse, 100% regardless of the veracity those allegations? The reality that they helped forge instead.
I still can't get over how they were essentially presented with a simplified version of the trolley problem and chose to not pull the lever.
By their own narrative that "the democrats are complicit in a genocide in Gaza", they were aware that Palestinians were metaphorically tied to both tracks, yet decided to not pull the lever when America itself and every marginalized person living within was also on the track the trolley barreled towards.
I suspected that many of the accounts were Russian plants or Trump supporters trying to divide the Democrat vote. Most of the time when I checked account age they were made either that day or the day before.
I know that Lemmy is new and all but still was sus.
I haven't gone back to accounts to see if they are still active. I suspect that they aren't.
Calling it simplified does a disservice of the real world impacts of the "trolley" - especially since unlike a thought experiment - this trolley problem is physically constructed by people to achieve imperialistic goals - so expending energy blaming random lemmings for this - instead of figuring out who built, maintains and presents the trolley as the only option and how to dismantle it seems useless.
I believe we should avoid infighting and actually organize to do something so we don't have to choose if we pull the lever or not every 4 years (if there even is another election..)
I find it scary how easily people where fine with having genocide on both sides of the ticket.
Not having a choice and being fine with with the choice you have are drastically different situations, and it's concerning how many people are incapable of unwilling to tell the difference between the two.
I would argue the entire problem is the self-defeating mentality that the D vs R choice is the only choice. It's in fact the population believing that - in itself - that results in the poor election outcomes for third parties. Something which was not true as recently as 30 years ago.
The population, in fact, has the option to vote for any candidate on the ballot, or even write in candidates. The so-called "viability" of third party candidates is a mental fiction. The "viability" only has to do with people's willingness to vote for them, which, in a massive circular logic, is based on their perception that the rest of the population will not vote for them. That is the actual mechanism at play here (besides the truly brainwashed, faithful supporters of the two major parties, at least).
In fact, the entire U.S. constitutional system is only a tradition/custom, that we have the option to up and abandon when it no longer serves us. The reason we get stuck with it is the various state actors (cops, military) who do not understand that it's not some sacred inviolable thing, or actually support it, and are willing to use violence on the population to enforce its implementation. What actually happens if the indoctrination of the entire population - Trump and Harris supporters and all - is undone, and we come up with a different, better vision for our society?
I'm not going to read the rest of your response, because you might as well be telling me that the person with the most points isn't the one who wins the superbowl. Between that and what little I read of your second paragraph tells me you either don't understand the system, or you don't understand game theory when one side is always going to vote for their guy regardless of how criminal or openly fascistic he is.
It isn't a self defeating choice that got us here it's literally how the system was designed. You say it wasn't like this 30 years ago, but I question how much you remember of the bush elections, because it's worse, but this was the natural progression with a party who is pathologically against actual governance.
We are enjoying the fruits of constantly lowering our moral standards. We see more anger towards those who where critical of the genocide than those who needlessly insisted on perpetuating it.
No sane people were fine with it, but sane people have to live in the real world and not believe some fucking fantasy that there was another option at the time.
The democrats did have another option at the time.
Why the fuck did the democrats leave Palestinians to their tracks?
This didn't have to be a difficult problem where we're forced to vote for genocide. The only people at fault for the democrats doing something as wildly unpopular as genocide, silencing anyone who said "You need to stop this if you want to win", and reaping the effects of that policy being unpopular are the democrats.
It's almost like single-issue voters aren't very good at logic problems…
The trolley problem is not a logic problem JFC. Every one of you gets an F in philosophy 101.
The point was to pressure the Dems into giving up on genocide. You wanna talk about "pepperidge farm remembers", I got one for ya
Remember when the Dems thought they could win while actively telling people who were anti genocide to go fuck themselves?
Hey, what's weirder? Not voting for someone committing genocide, or being unwilling to stop committing a genocide even if it costs you the election?
How does it feel that the only thing that Harris had to do was say "I will stop weapons to Israel" and she would of won?
You can't keep blaming the voters when the strategy was at fault. They knew they would lose votes. They thought they could court the centrists and liberal Republicans to make up for it. They were so fucking wrong. And somehow it's not their own fault for having the worst campaign strategy known to man.
Like, Christ. Y'all ain't ever gonna stop trying to blame leftists. You'll be up against the wall with leftists fighting for your life and you'll still be like "can't believe you didn't vote Harris". I can't believe Harris threw away the election over the continued genocide of palastinians. That's fucking crazy. Is that not crazy to you? You don't find it fucking insane that the Dems would rather a fascist state than stop actively committing a genocide? Cause that's the fucking Gambit they ran and look where we are.
Look. I'm pissed. Your pissed. But we are just people with no power. Same with all those voters you wanna complain about. All we have is the ability to yell and vote. And while I voted for Harris out of fucking fear, I cannot blame the people who yelled "I will not vote for you if you keep committing genocide" and were fucking CALLED ON THAT SHIT. What kind of monster gambles with their own base over a fucking genocide?
As a fellow reluctant Harris voter, what upsets me the most is that the numbers people have run shows that no, actually, genocide was not the deciding factor in this election, which is kind of an indictment of America itself, but regardless, I'm sick of leftists being blamed when all the ones I know STILL voted Harris and the data shows that it wasn't leftist that didn't turn out, it was centrists. Harris didn't have a voter base. Sure, some dems turned out, but she didn't actually inspire people to vote, and that's basically the only way dems win.
It's because she has no message. All she could promise voters was stuff like "I'll give you a little bit of money to help you get a house." She was all flash and no substance.
*for first time homebuyers who have rented for at least 2 years without a late payment
Because there's nothing that makes a proposal more popular than adding means-testing.
She had a message, it was "more of the same"; when asked what she would do differently from Biden her response wasn't "Fuck this guy who spent the last 4 years doing fuckall, I would have defended abortion rights, appointed an AG who would have put Trump in prison and gone after Manchin and Sinoma, and any republican, a head of the DEA who would have unscheduled cannabis, etc", she said the difference was that she would appoint a republican to the cabinet.
That promise for housing gets misquoted as well as what she actually offered was:
First generation homebuyers who no one in their family has ever owned a house, after paying rent in a government approved rental firm for 2 years could get up to $25,000. And stated starter homes would cost between $300,000 and $800,000 dollars depending on location.
She did have a point to ask Congress to pass legislation to slow people buying more than 50 single family homes.
This was lost to her wealthy advisors telling her to not go through with these plans as they would impact the investment opportunities of housing.
She barely even got to flash before the DNC tried to reign in anything that might change things.
Why blame the politicians with data and statistics on how to run a campaign when you can blame the voters who showed up?
How many times do we have to "swallow our pride" to vote for milquetoast candidates before we can have change? How many times do I have to vote for "nothing will fundamentally change" before I can call bullshit?
voting is power, hell not voting is power. is it a fair system?
fuck no, but not voting did help get us here
disclaimer: gerrymandering and voter suppression also played a huge role
I do, and was downvoted for calling it out from my last account, and this one for remembering it.
Are these people gaslit or are they doing it for their favorite political celebrities who don't know they exist or care for them?
I remember the BBC manufacturing consent for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris complicity genocide as well.
Interesting that such a fucked system exists that could allow the 50/50 chance that who wins an election could singlehandedly decide if everything is fascism and genocide or not, with what appears to be no real checks of power in place.
And you choose to blame those who have nearly no control over said system.
Lemmy is also a tiny community relative to other similar communities online. Lenmy is also not even just people in the US. You also don't know how many of those posts were trolls or bots.
It sure seems to me that the larger system and set of choices are completely fucked to begin with and gives the "people" next to no options or say in much of anything.
But yes. If Lemmy people had not slammed Harris.... then... something might have been..... different?
So, yes, if you were in front of the trolley lever, you’d remark “Wow, this system is fucked. Why do we even have trolleys? Shouldn’t they have brakes?”
…and then not pull the lever.
None of you crypto-nazis can be honest about this discussion. You keep lying and presenting the choice as between two unequally bad options. If anything the democrats have been objectively worse in hindsight. There would have been no ceasefire if you had your way.
Now that Trump is in office you want to put on your resistance hats again like we didn't all just watch you rabidly support the genocide yourselves.
This is why people disregard your opinions, because you lie and pretend that they weren't unequally bad options.
They were both bad options, but saying they're equal tells me you don't pay attention or are intentionally lying.
Honestly not sure why it hasn't been suggested that the 'no vote' bullshit was a tactic to get Repubs the win. Sure as hell worked and didn't do anything to solve the issue, as we can blatantly see now.
Wasn't the idea to get the Democrats to explicitly state they were a anti genocide and promise policies to back that up?
That was the big ask, yes.
It has, it's been a conspiracy on lemmy for the past 6 months. Any time anyone criticized Biden or Harris for aiding a genocide someone would pop up and say they're a secret republican or Russian bot.
If I had a nickel for every time I was called one of those, I'd have enough to flee the country from Trump.
It has, constantly. Anyone who disagrees with you folks is labelled a Russian bot who wants Trump to win. Even if they fall in line they were labelled that way, just for saying things like, "I'll vote for Biden but his age is a legitimate concern."
Cool, we remember - now what? What do we materially do now to resist that isn't just blaming non-voters online?
Blaming other people and feeling superior is how Democrats win! Aren't you paying attention? Hey, where are they taking us??!
There aren't many options... Which is probably why op is blaming non-voters, who are complicit in creating our current situation.
Get ready to vote Dem really hard in 2028 /s
It's also obvious that Trump and BB were coordinating during the election to ensure Biden couldn't get a ceasefire deal in place in order to harm him politically. But as soon as Trump takes the office they just agree to a ceasefire no problem (as if that hadn't been the plan all along) aaaaaaand then Trump goes off about finishing the job and annexing the whole west bank for the US. What a fucking surprise.
'allegedly'
The mental gymnastics will only intensify as these fucking crypto-nazis get to distance themselves from their beliefs and actions of just a few months ago.
Man I really wish you guys elected Harris or Joe Biden to sit back and watch this happen instead of talking about it openly, that would have been great for the Palestinians.
I'd rather have someone watch me fight a bear then have them help the bear by shooting me, and the rest of my family, repeatedly while I fight it. So yeah really would've been a lot better.
And by watch, I mean supply the bear with billions worth of bombs
GeNoCiDe jOe!!!
I think people overestimating just how much the average person cares about wars abroad. This applies to every country.
Those millions of democratic voters that voted Biden in 2020, saw that the cost of living keeps going up, inflation happens and correlates with Biden's term, and most people doesn't understand that:
Correlation =/= Causation.
Most of those 7 million Democratic voters that voted Biden but didn't vote Harris are probably thinking: I voted for Joe Biden and nothing changed, why bother voting
I doubt that 7 Million people suddenly cared about a foreign genocide (like when have the average civillian cared?)