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Trump says Palestinians have ‘no alternative’ but to leave Gaza
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 04 Feb 2025
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Y'all need to fucking stop with this dumb shit. We have been pointing out for two years the bipartisan political consensus on supporting this genocide and ethnic cleansing. They are working together on it. Get the fuck over it, you live under totalitarianism with a fake opposition party. This genocide started under Biden, with his support, and is continuing under Trump, with his support. It's not "degrees of genocide", it's fucking genocide. They are both in on a scheme of exterminating an ethnic group and dispossessing them from their land. This plan has been underway with U.S. support not since two weeks ago, but since fucking 1948. OK?
Some of you all are just in full freakout mode these past two weeks. I'm calm as stone. Know why? Because I've been living with these facts for decades. All you people are seeing is the mask falling off the system. I already saw under the mask. Join the club. Get your shit together so we can actually fix this.
Jesus fuck you really think it was MSM libs that opposed you here.
Anarchist, know more than you, and it was completely evident this would happen which is objectively worse. Stop the cope.
Well, I knew this. A pragmatic anarchist who advocates for the better option. I’m anti-fascist before I’m an anti-statist. Give me liberalism any day of the week vs what’s coming. (Thx again eejit)
Honestly thank you for being here and writing this. The "but Kamala" comments are super hurtful to me because I remember how the Americans have been treating us ever since. My entire family is displaced from Palestine, had to abandon studies in Syria, Iraq back in the day, had to flee again from Kuwait, my friends and acquaintances together have lost hundreds of family members. We have lost family members and ongoing trauma from having lived under occupation. It’s unbearable and you can’t even do therapy because it’s still going on, you can’t get closure.
I don’t know a single Palestinian out there who hasn’t lost family or friends, or who has family or friends who moved abroad for good.
We’ve been suffering from ethnic cleansing, apartheid, collective gaslighting since 1948 and we’ve been facing violence and terror since even much longer. As if it would make a difference to us if the person who’s literally providing the means to annihilate us is saying nice words while doing the opposite? Trump is escalating our annihilation and we never doubted that, but the Gaza genocide alone has been going on for almost 1.5 years and there was no Trump.
Many people here really don’t seem to care about the actual people. The same way we aren’t human to Trump & the Zionists, I don’t feel human when Harris supporters use Palestinians to say "I told you so".
Aaaah. Now you want to work together. Imagine that! When we asked you all to help keep this from happening, we were told to take our genocide supporting asses and go fuck ourselves.
Now, you’re wanting to play nice? Naaah. I’m calm as a stone too when I tell you that if you didn’t vote, or protested with a bullshit third party loser, you did this.
And we deserve to be angry about it.
I wasn't on Lemmy since ~late 23 until after the election. Who is "you"? It's not me.
My specific quotes at the time looked a lot like what I just wrote. Pointing out that the power of the people is in choosing their own candidates, not being handed them by the media and party apparatuses. That the two parties are visibly cooperating on genocide and that the only meaningful course of action is for the people to overthrow them.
I’m sorry, did someone else just say this?
That not you pretending there’s a “we” here? Because again, if you voted third party, or stayed home- you are openly admitting that you know nothing about the threat we faced, about how elections actually work, and about what the word “we” means.
There is no we that I am a part of that includes you. We tried to stop this. YOU didn’t.
You didn't try to stop shit. You watched a genocide and voted for the same people committing it, because the only thing that mattered to you was your own ass. You weaponize marginalized people to act like you're the hero of the story, but you only care about yourself. People who care about justice and have their entire lives know damn well that the entire system needs to be replaced.
Our only chance is unity. Even if I fucking hate people like you. That's always been the case. That's been the only chance out of a system where even the "opposition" supports genocide for our entire lives. Whether it's 2024, or 2028, or picking up the rubble in 2032. But you know what destroys unity? PEOPLE WHO FOLD INTO THE SYSTEM AND DESTROY OUR UNITED FRONT AGAINST OUR OPPRESSORS.
What specifically did you do to try to stop it other than rant and rave on the internet and not vote for certain people?
I didn’t vote for a single person that committed genocide, so stop with the false accusations and… answer this:
Did you stay home when the rest of us voted to stop trump? It’s a simple yes or no.
And you’ve no place to speak of unity when you stood against everyone that stood against trump.
No, it's unity AGAINST mass murderers. Not unity SUPPORTING them. Even if there's two of them and one of them is 5% worse!
And I can already hear it. "You only had two choices!" Then I reject your stupid fucking choices.
Rejecting reality and protesting in a fantasy world. Cute. trump thanks you for your vote.
Ahhh… okay. Good! Now we’re getting somewhere! You openly admit to…. rejecting our “stupid fucking choices,” but simultaneously demand that we all unite together under your anti-genocide banner.
Got it.
Noble effort, not too many flaws that I can see in the reasoning- genocide… absolutely is a horrid act… no question there, but… the logic in this…. “idea” only works if we were suspend enough disbelief to assume that looking at two identical candidates in all other regards and capacity.
Reality is showing you that this isn’t the case.
Because you see, your rejection of OUR “stupid fucking choice” not only opened the floodgates of FAR worse suffering in Palestine, but you also pretty much threw the the entirely of the LGB¹ and minorities under the bus along with so many other marginalized people in America,
All because of your entitlement.
I’ll even bet… that if I looked back through the year and a half or so of your existence here on lemmy… I’d find that prior to October, you had nothing at all to say about the plight of Palestine.
Yeah.. you’re not “we.” We tried to stop this. You didn’t.
¹ - You might not be familiar with this new acronym. They used to be referred to as LGBTQ+ but because of the consequences of non-voters and protests voters, the “T” is not recognized as existing any more.
In your society's made up system, that you refuse to abandon, despite the fact that its very existence threatens extinction for the human race?
You played their game, by their rules. You lost. We wanted to either play their game by OUR rules, or quit their game. That was a viable strategy, IF THE POPULATION TOOK IT. But one sane person in Nazi Germany couldn't stop WW2. They ALL needed to be aware.
You quit the game. You lost. Being so delusional as to think an entire population would turn on a dime is hilariously sad. All your efforts did was turn voters away that could have worked against the cliff we now face. MAGA was always going to be a minority of moron, but you people really gave them the leg up they needed to win the final fight. GJ
Yes, damn my unrealistic standards for not wanting the population to support any genocidal politicians.
Let me educate you about "the game". We all had the ability to vote for anyone on the ballot, or even write in candidates that weren't on the ballot (besides one state where they actually said they'd discard write-ins). There was no lift for the population to do this. The media framed it as D vs. R., you all decided any third party was "unrealistic", and that self-fulfilling prophecy cost any third party candidate the votes. Your D candidate couldn't secure the votes. Our Green or Socialist or whatever candidate couldn't secure the votes. Who is really to blame? The population didn't unite enough behind anyone to win. The person you guys united behind was a fucking monster, even though you got the lion's share of non-Trump votes. Do you have any other basis for voting for a political candidate, to rule over our entire society, besides how fucking popular they are?
What did Palestine expect the outcome of Oct 7th to be? What was that intended to accomplish, vs what actually happened?
Rewrite your comment except make it about "the Jews" re: the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. How does it sound when you frame it that way?
So now you're trying to frame Oct 7th as a defensive action against an invading force? This shit is why you don't get support from people who aren't myopically pro-palestine.
It's the international consensus that Palestine is under military occupation from "Israel". Military action against occupation is an enshrined right under international law. The exception of course is attacks against civilians - which are not considered legal, hence the ICC arrest warrants being for both Netanyahu/Gallant, and Hamas leaders - but also which didn't solely characterize the actions on Oct. 7. That is the actual, nuance, objective description of Oct. 7. No analogy is perfect. The Jewish militants in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising were likely signficantly more targeted against Nazi soldiers and paramilitaries, but at the same time, they also hadn't been stuck in the Warsaw Ghetto for a staggering 56 years, under a choking blockade since 2006.
So you made a stupid statement, and when I call you out you shuffle the goalposts around. Yes, this is why you outside your circle you're just an angry buzzing noise.
I asked what they thought the outcome of Oct 7th was going to be, and you said 'but what if it was like the Warsaw Uprising? would you still say that?' And the answer is no, because the situations are not similar. You tried to rationalize Gaza as a ghetto being invaded by the SS and that's why they had to attack civilians and take civilian hostages on Oct 7th. I tried to explain that I reject you rationalization, but I see we're straying very far away from 'isreal bad' so I am not surprised you're losing track of the conversation
A big problem for me is that I'm experiencing 'respect whiplash', as I used to be very pro-palestine and very against the isreal settlements, then Oct 7 happen and I got to watch live as Palestinians fed grenades into a civilian bunker until everyone inside was dead. Do you have any idea how hard it is to come back from that?
The point of the original comparison was to draw attention to how you're equating the militant groups involved with Oct. 7 (Hamas, PIJ) with the ENTIRE Palestinian people, which includes not only people under Hamas rule, in the West Bank, and in the international Palestinian diaspora. Was that not clear? The genocidal demonization of an ETHNIC GROUP based on cherry-picked incidents was the problematic thinking I was drawing attention to. The analogy does also apply in general to militant uprisings by an oppressed people against their oppressors, with the caveats that I already mentioned.
I very literally not did say that, and made a point to say attacking civilians is illegal under international law. I REALLY dislike people inferring things from my comments that are not there.
Yes, this is not clear. The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is an invalid comparison to Oct 7th, and your further attempts to compare the two fall flat and in fact manage to further vilify Hamas and Gaza who have been attempting to ignite this very war for the majority of my adult life by shooting an unending barrage of rockets and mortars at civilian targets while using their countrymen as willing human shields
It is in fact not invalid. Hamas's rockets have been untargeted with next to zero actual civilian casualties, the purpose is to financially exhaust the "Iron Dome" system. And it's completely dishonest to frame it as "starting" a war, when the Occupied Palestinian territories, including Gaza, are under "Israeli" occupation per the definitions under international law (don't give me that "they took out their settlements in 2005" crap either).
Your statement is a logical contradiction. The Iron Dome does not activate when the projected path of the rocket does not appear to target civilians, so the only way to activate Iron Dome is to target civilians. Untargeted would imply that they're just sending them in random directions which is obviously not the case. No surprise though since Gaza has been intentionally targeting civilians since 1950. One could say almost exclusively targeting civilians. They've been begging for exactly what they finally got, but they hoped for a repeat of the six day war with a happier ending. Imagine that each bomb dropped on Gaza today is a refund of a bomb that has been thrown at Israel over the last 20 years, the difference is that Israel has bigger bombs and Hamas has known this the whole time.
The internet loves videos of a little guy picking on a bigger stronger guy and then getting smashed into paste for his trouble. That's how this looks. Y'all were doing so well being sympathetic victims EVEN WITH the constant rocket barrage, then you took it too far and now it's the find out phase.
To bring this back to the subject of your vote for Trump; Israel exists in its current form as a projection of American influence, from its very inception this was intended to be the case. Its very existence relies on the fact that the usa can use Israel as a base of operations when it comes to keeping the flow of oil moving, and as long as that area has oil that we want this is going to continue regardless of anything else. Not voting for the people who have some shame and want it soft lands you with the people with no shame who wouldn't scrape a dead Gazian child off their shoe, and that's where we are right now.
It does, actually, it performs a triage when it can't handle a large number of simultaneous projectiles, and of COURSE it's designed to intercept missiles sent to military targets. What a bizarre claim. You are flat out making things up to support your argument, for god knows what reason.
I'm not Palestinian. I'm an impartial observer of what's happening, just one who cares more than most of you, enough to sort through disinformation...
Just flat out lying now. I'm done here.
Maybe I spoke a bit too fast, if the rocket from Gaza looks like it's not going to fall on anybody, the Iron Dome does not turn on. So to make the Iron Dome turn on, Gaza has to point the rockets at people. Does that make more sense to you? Your reply doesn't make sense in this context so I feel like you're confused.
It's a two party system, so if you didn't vote for the loser you effectively voted for the winner. You should be used to logical leaps enough to understand that; if you can vote, your vote matters even if you don't use it. Not using it is a choice, and choices have consequences.
I'm sure being rude to people will definitely get them to do what you want and abandon society.
I know I'm always able to get my way by being rude.
What rudeness? In that comment?
If you can't see how what you said was rude, I think you have big problems.
#deep
Fuck off, troll.
Yeah. You can’t conduct yourself in a discussion without aggressive hostilities, and I’m the troll. I’m assuming this is your way of getting moderators to nuke the entire discussion? I’ve been as polite as the rules suggest.
I’ve simply asked you a yes or no question that you’re blowing up the discussion as a distraction to get out of answering.
Did you vote?
Again. It’s a simple question.
Because none of Trump's executive orders personally affect you or anyone you love. Must be nice.
Unfortunately it's not that way for everyone. Many of us are trying to figure out how to survive the next four years without dying to a preventive illness or ending up in a concentration camp, so I'm not sorry if us "freaking out" offends you.
No, because I have decades of trauma that you people are just beginning to feel.
As I went on to explain in my comment, which for some reason you felt the need to just selectively quote and then reframe in some completely bullshit way.
Oh, so now it's "get the fuck over it"? Both sides are totally the same!
I don't think so, bebe. You motherfuckers will NEVER be permitted to live this down. This is YOUR fault. We will make you choke on it.
Not even fucking remotely what I said.