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this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2025
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Privacy
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The words "islamist" or "islamism" are so utterly meaningless nowadays. Basically means "brown person whose opinion we don't like".
I mean, there are things to critizise about him. But anyone who calls him an islamist juts shows his bigotry or utter stupidity.
(US citizens also don't need a visa to enter Switzerland, but that is a technicality.)
I have not enough knowledge about him to say if it was reasonable to not let him in, but his post on X seemed to celebrate destruction and murder.
I think it is in the manner of “better safe than sorry” it is reasonable to not give this man a visa. And I very much hope that a person celebrating Israel’s attacks would neither.
And how does this make him an islamist?
You've just involuntarily proven my point that the word "islamist" is just utterly arbitrary and mostly just used to hide racism at this point.
Umm, in the article I posted is nowhere written islamist. Only extremist supporting for palestine (and hamas as it seems).
Fedpol will ban any too popular person it thinks has connections to hamas from entering Switzerland
Then why does you answer to my comment have nothing to do with the point of my comment.
Maybe it have to spell it out: My point was that western media use the word "islamist" utterly arbitrary to attack brown people of any ideology, thus rendering the term useless. And that is discustingly racist. This is especially true for far right media like the NZZ that you cited.
Your point was that you apparently presume that I defend him, which I didn't. He blocked me ten years ago in Twitter after a heated discussion. I don't like him.
I now presume that your are discussing with bad intentions.
You ask me how it makes him an islamist after I commented regional context, i answer that I and the article never stated that he is a “islamist” (what that even mean, isn’t that just the same as saying someone is Jude/Christian??), and then you said I missed the point
🙉WTF
Lol, I have to check out if I can block you. I despice right wing trolls. But this is the headline of the article you cited and on which I commented:
Und "Islamist" heißt auf english halt "islamist". Versuch nicht meinen Kommentar zu verdrehen. Unglaublich, AFD-Taktiken...
My whole comment was about the use of the word islamist and you act like I defended him. I call this "ill faith".
Of course you can block me, but what is it worth? It limits you to see other opinions..
😆damn, and yea you are right, i have overseen that.
How to you call people who believe in the islamistic religion, if islamist is wrong?
Yes, that's the point. That's the thing we're calling out.
But isn’t it understandable that Switzerland does not want foreign political organisations to interfere with the political landscape in Switzerland?
As told above already, I just hope (and fear that is not) that similar extremists supporting attacks from Isreal, are banned from entering our country as well.
Is Switzerland banning everyone who's expressed support for a foreign political organization? No? Ok then, guess that's not what this is about.
They aren't and won't be though. You know that, and you know why. They also won't be banning people supporting attacks by the USA, or Ukraine, or any NATO power. Because that's not what it's about.
Supporter and Extremist is not the same.
I don’t know this person not well enough to decide where to place him, but seeing his post on X, I strongly assume, that he advocated violence.
Given that merely supporting Hamas apparently makes you an extremist, they sure seem to be.
So anyone who supports the military is an extremist?
Yea, Supporting Hamas does, if you actually try convincing other people to do the same, since Switzerland officially sees Hamas as Terror organisation. Fedpol has only acted based on that, but not decided it.
Just supporting Palestine does not make you extremist
Yea, anyone who supports military to invade other countries is in my eyes an extremist. But I have to investigate how the definition of extremist is officially in swiss government.
The idea that the government can unilaterally and arbitrarily declare that it's illegal to support a resistance group is the most anti-free speech thing I can possibly imagine. This is seriously the most extremist view possible. You would have supported criminalizing support for Nelson Mandela.
Apparently it would if the government told you it did.
Not in the eyes of Fedpol though, quite the opposite: they claim supporting people opposing invasion is extremism. You also would have supported criminalizing support for the allies invading the Nazis. Again, that's not a question, that's what you believe.
Joining an organisation is not speech, it is more. Talking that you think they have a right to attack Israel, that you think they should kill all xxx, they believe the government is lying to you, etc. that is free speech and is allowed.
Sorry did not get what you trying to say here
Fedpol is not opinionated, they have a list of terror groups that are not written by frdpol and they have the order to not let anyone in trying to find more people joining that terror group
Please finally learn that our government is not homogenous and not a dictatorship. We have many devisions that do different stuff and oh boy they are never in consensus, there are people of any opinion in the swiss government. It is not a single entity like Trump, Putin, Xi, etc. Who have or think they have absolute power.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/7/20/palestinians-have-a-legal-right-to-armed-struggle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_armed_resistance
Right to defend is not equal celebrating death and destruction like it was some sort of a fucking party…
I agree with you, that Israel did not handle the situation like they should have. But I agree with Fedpol as well, to not let any extremist disturb the cultural peace we currently have in Switzerland.
Lol, if Switzerland kicked out every European who generically celebrated destruction or murder, it would be an empty country.
Only popular people get onto the radar of Fedpol.
And Switzerland has swiss citizens, there are not only European people in Switzerland.
And yea, I agree, that Fedpol does not always do the right decision, meaning false positives and false negatives.
But with this guy, I agree with fedpol, at least with that little information I have, hope this X posts are really from him and mot a smear campaign.
Really? So no popular supporter of Israels genocide has ever been to Switzerland? No supporter of the Iraq War? No popular person who has celebrated murder or destruction by a western power has ever been to Switzerland?
I'm going to let you in on a secret: Switzerland? It's actually in Europe.
And by "doesn't always make the right decision" you mean it makes its decision based on whether or not it agrees with the particular instance of murder and destruction being celebrated.
Yes, I gathered you agree with banning free speech you disagree with.
I need more evidence than a single entity that was bot let in and is in my opinion ok to not let in to conclude that we have a systemic problem in fedPol
I hope there are some good quality investigation reports about that
Supporter and extremist is not the same
My personal opinion is, that every country has “bad” and “good” people and I have no desire to have extremists in my country
If fedPol really does such a bad job preventing Israel supporting extremism from entering Switzerland, we indeed have to change that.
I support free speech and I am thankful for al the crical thinking in this comment thread. We don’t solve problems by ignoring each other.
Yes, actually, it is.
Great, when are you going to be leaving?
You're not going to though. You will continue to persecute opposition to it though.
No. You don't. You support speech that is not too far from what you believe, but nothing too different.
With that definition, I would be an extremist as well, lol
Not gonna leave a country where we have a working mechanism to make changes in the constitution based on the will of it’s people
If that is the case, I will donate to organisations who make a proper investigation about it and use its results to issue an initiative changing that. I do that via the party that I am a member of (swiss pirate party)
😆how do you get to that conclusion, I am all in for free speech, as long as it don’t celebrate violence
Yes, correct. Sounds like you're finally starting to understand my point.
Oh sorry, I thought you said you don't want extremists in your country.
So you are, in fact, not for free speech. Given you apparently don't think people should be allowed to openly celebrate things like the defeat of the Nazis
Though I notice you yourself support the violent act of expelling a person from a part of our shared planet.
*extremist because I do support Palestine, and have the opinion that the Israel government has fucked up hard / is to be considered a terror organisation as well.
I do not see myself as extremist
I support celebrating defence but I do not support invasion
And attack a neighbour directly with 1000x power as answer of an event is not only defending
To nuance my sentence above
I am ok with “i think we need violence to achieve this” etc as opinion
But “these dogs need all to be hanged and killed like they were no humans” is not ok.
You're so close.
And I don't see Hamas supporters as extremist. I do see you as extremist though.
Hamas has never invaded anyone.
Ok, and you would have also condemned the allies for invading the Nazis. That's not a question by the way, that's just what you believe.
Actually it is, and I consider you an extremist to believe you can claim otherwise.
I am an extremist because I am not shouting “kill all Israel people?” Or is because I don’t say “kill all Judes” or what exactly makes me an extremist?!
I never told that Hamas invaded anyone, I just told that I don’t approve the ways they handle stuff. And that swiss government has but Hamas on the list of terrorist groups.
This means that fedPol has no choice but to not let Hamas supporters in, if they get wind of it.
Well, if a country gets invaded and freed after, that is not an invasion. At least if the invasion did happen in the last decade. I don’t support keeping old conflicts alive. Else everybody could invade anybody since any country invaded at least once since the concept of countries.
But yea, in my opinion, the takeover of germany by the end of WW2, where de big border through Berlin was build, was an invasion and I don’t approve that invasion (you still see the scars from that invasion)
And hear you the difference between you and me. I would never wish anyone to have to die if they don’t want to. Not even the worst child raping serial killer. I would prefer to analyse this person’s psychology and find reasons that has led to that outcome and do anything to prevent others people from getting on the same path.
As I heard from the 7. October, where the party was slain by Hamas (I say Hamas not Palestine on purpose here) it hit me hard, as I myself am a Person enjoying exactly this style of music. But never did I wish death to the shooters there. I would prefer to talk and find a way how we can forgive each other.
But if this wish makes me an extremist in your eyes, I really don’t know what is wrong with you..