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this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2025
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There has never, ever been anything approaching a protest that starts with the words "sitting out".
That's not revolution, that's apathy and disinterest. That's what the people in power want.
Don't sit out. Stand up. Do something. Or don't. But don't lie to yourself and others and say that sitting out of the problem makes it any better.
In a sense you're right, but it seems like a lot of people participating in this discussion may have a misunderstanding of the history of disagreements about electoralism on the revolutionary left.
Historically, some members of the left don't want to waste time and resources participating in electoralism that could be spent doing other things that contribute to the revolution that will happen when the Bourgeois electoral system inevitably collapses.
Others want to participate to signal the point when that collapse has inevitably occurred because the corruption will have become blatantly obvious.
Personally, I don't think just going in and voting counts as the kind of participation that theory is describing (that is, running in elections, participating in campaigns, etc.)
On the other hand, it has also become blatantly obvious to me, personally, at this point that on a national level my vote just doesn't count. My vote is dictated by the capitalist class owned and controlled media telling everyone which states will vote which way. The puppet politicians aren't vying for popular support, they're vying for oligarch support and the media they control to sway that population. It's voter manipulation on an unbelievable scale that sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I can't ignore that it has become blatantly obvious to me that the system is rigged by the capitalist class, and participation in it (at higher levels) is pointless.
What you guys don't get is that when the electoral system eventually collapses it will be far too late, and any chance of your revolution ever happening will be long gone.
What do you think a revolution is if not a collapse of the previous system?
Edit: also, it has already collapsed. That should have been evident in the 2016 primaries.
Just so I understand, you'd rather wait around until the complete collapse of society rather than take five minutes to go vote, is that right? Because what, a democrat might accidently get elected and give you healthcare, but he might get some money from a corporation or something to do it so fuck that, right?
You understand that if things ever got bad enough for the system to collapse it would not be a communist paradise that arises from the ashes, right?
I seriously don't understand you people. This is like chopping your whole hand off because your fingernails need trimming.
You don't actually own anything of value, like a house or a car, I take it.
Given this response, I'm guessing you read less than a paragraph in to my original response and decided you needed to wield your superior intellect and values and produce a "gotcha" response while not actually understanding what you were reading.
I own a relatively large house and multiple cars. I have a wife and a dog and a daughter and a granddaughter. I have lots of completely unnecessary consumer goods. Likely I'm more well off than you. Just because I can play and succeed in the capitalist game doesn't mean I don't recognize it for the oppressive system that it is and sympathize with the people that didn't get as lucky as me.
You so badly want to pounce you have to build a straw man to dislike instead of trying to understand a perspective different from your own. You are a petty person.
Couldn't think of a witty comeback, huh?
You obviously don't seem to care about the kind of country they grow up in, since you're too lazy to do the absolute minimum required to prevent them from growing up in a fascist hellhole.
All I'm saying is that fascism is here, which side are you on? Because if you're just going to sit this one out, then you're on the side of the fascists.
I read it. I just don't buy your bullshit excuse for not voting. That's dumb. That's like the kind of thing I would've said when I was an edgy thirteen year old.
Hey, you're the one who won't get up off his lazy ass to go vote, not me. See what you're not getting is that voting is not about you "Supporting a corrupt system." It's about you protecting the people you love. You have told me that you don't give a shit enough to bother voting, so I must therefore come to the conclusion that there's nothing and nobody you love.
It tells me you don't care about justice, or the rule of law, or the economics of the downtrodden, or about giving people healthcare, or preserving the planet so they don't live in a polluted shithole. These are all things that have a direct effect on your life, and the life of your wife, daughter, and grandchild -and by your inaction you're complicit in allowing fascists to take power and create the policies governing these things. Like I said, who's side are you on? Apparently you're not even on your own family's side.
Hey I'm not sorry you got offended. Sounds like this is the first time anyone's ever bother to tell you the truth about yourself.
The great thing about this country is that nobody forces you to do anything. Feel free to sit everything out if that satisfies whatever stupid corrupt moral requirements you've created for yourself. Just don't try to pretend that you actually care about your country, your family, or anyone else if you can't even bother to show up every four years to do the absolute minimum required to keep this country free.
See, if you would've just said this all in the beginning we could've avoided all this. Because it sounded to me - and to any other rational person reading your post - that you were making excuses for not voting. That's why I bolded the text "No, I didn't say I did." You did not say you voted, so how am I supposed to know you did? Am I supposed to read your mind?
Still, it seems a bit like you're still not understanding how important it actually is, so I refuse to apologize. I stand by every word, and I use this as my rationale:
When one of the candidates is a fascist who's going to hurt people and destroy democracy, then not voting against them kinda is a reflection on your character. It shows you don't care enough about other people.
I like how I'm the fascist, when I'm the one actually doing something to try and stop fascists and not the one making excuses for those who didn't
This is a great point. I am a paying member of the SP. I attend major demos across the southwest. Currently building housing unions in my city.
Voting in neo-librisism I won't do.
You're not engaging with the challenge to your original statement.
You don't protest by sitting out. So what are you doing?
I'm not speaking for the person you're replying to, nor do I necessarily approve of the actions of what I'm about to share, but I certainly know someone who doesn't vote but does go to rallies and very often writes/calls their representative and senators. (Though I do think they voted this election cycle for Harris, which was extremely rare for them.)
I'm not questioning the value of non-electoral political action. That is just as - if not more - important. Get involved. Use your voice. Donate. Rally. Please.
I am only challenging this naive idea that "not voting" = "protesting". You cannot protest by staying home. You cannot protest by sitting out. Not voting isn't action, it's inaction and no revolution will ever, ever start with inaction.
Very fair point.
Sitting out has definitely been a form of protest. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_bus_boycott
Hell democracy is measured by political votes, a nation with low voter turn out are considered non democratic.
The Montgomery bus boycott didn't start with sitting out. It started with Rosa Parks sitting in.
Not to mention the easily understood fact that an economic boycott - one which causes direct material consequences - has absolutely no relation to some sort of "political boycott", which causes zero consequences against anyone in power.
Yes? Congratulations, you are therefore contributing to our continued democratic decline.
This same argument can be used with electoral protest. It would be disingenuous to say none voting in protest materialised from nothing.
I don't see your point. If people aren't voting then that is a symptom and not a cause. I think also a nuanced lens helps with this. People not voting isn't binary. some knowingly protest, some are seeing the slow encroachment of inequality and just couldn't care less which leader will continue to fuck them over.
Not voting is absolutely both a symptom and a cause. How do you think we got here, if not by voting for the people who won the elections for the past century, and by not voting for the people who lost the elections?
The reason the Republicans won is that billionaires are funding campaign, popularism is on the rise, class consciousness is low.
This is not a good counterexample. A boycott has immediate financial consequences for the boycotted company/industry. No such pressure is generated by sitting out an election.
In fact, a central strategy of the right wing in the United States is to reduce overall voter turnout, which is achieved either by restricting access to voting or by discouraging voter participation. By sitting out the vote you did exactly what the right wing wanted you to do.
Yeah, we get it, you won't vote against fascism and genocide. You're too pure for that.
Let the suffering of minorities sanctify your cause.
Scratch a liberal a fascist bleeds.
"Letting people be genocided is bad" is apparently a liberal take now, and liberalism is, of course, fascism.
How curious.