1024
It's true (lemmy.zip)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 26 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Still a murderer. Regardless of how much we agree with his reasons and the rest of the outcomes.

Fuck that CEO, and fuck the entire US health insurance system, but I'm just not going to delude myself that this guy did not murder the piece of shit.

Edit: See, this is exactly what I'm so against. Too many people are willing to shit on anyone who says anything slightly negative about this guy, all while throwing logic out the window. This is disgusting and outright dangerous behavior.

People need to not lose sight that things got so bad that this guy had to take it this far. Downplaying the fact this was murder is not good.

[-] Josey_Wales@lemmy.world 45 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Murder is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse committed with the necessary intention as defined by the law in a specific jurisdiction.

Justification is a defense in a criminal case, by which a defendant who committed the acts asserts that because what they did meets certain legal standards, they are not criminally culpable for the acts which would otherwise be criminal.

NYS Penal Law SECTION 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person

Whether or not he is a murderer depends on whether the DA can meet their burden of proving he committed the acts necessary to satisfy the elements of NYS definition of whatever degree of murder the Grand Jury indicts (if that happens) AND he is not able to establish the affirmative defense of justification.

None of these determinations have been made yet.

I gotta ask, are you a time traveler or a boot licker?

[-] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

Am I a bootlicker simply because I don't agree with a killing?

I'm not in any way saying the CEO was not a total shitbag who was the effective cause of many deaths.

I just don't like that murder was seemingly what needed to happen to give people a voice.

[-] Adori@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago

Unfortunately yes, peaceful protest isn't working nowadays

[-] frostysauce@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago
[-] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago

Then blame the monsters who ignore human rights for sake of profit, and their enablers. Not the person who saved lives by giving the billionaires a reality check. Yes, it was an unlawful killing. But if the law protects mass murder by denial of life saving care, then how should people change something?

[-] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

I do blame the monstrous predators of our fucked up healthcare system that ruin and end people's lives to make a profit.

I also don't like that someone had to be killed in response.

I don't blame the guy, but I also believe that killing is wrong.

[-] fosho@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 week ago

it is unfortunate that someone had to be killed. the argument is that there is no other way to accomplish change. and I would probably agree with that.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[-] FuzzyDog@lemmy.world 27 points 1 week ago

And yet, actions taken by the UHC CEO have doubtlessly caused far, far more suffering and death. Why aren't you criticizing him?

[-] iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 week ago

You can criticize both a piece of shit profiting off the misery of others, and the person that murdered him in cold blood and took a father away from two children. You can also criticize them both without equating them, in fact.

[-] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Exactly. I'm glad someone gets it.

[-] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

I do when people try to defend the CEO.

[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

People voted for privatized healthcare. They created the UHC. Nobody holds a vote for vigilante murder, nor is anything significant gained by setting the killer free.

Just treat it as a fair trade.

[-] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

You seem to be getting dangerously close to advocating for imprisonment of Luigi Mangione. Imprisonment is a violent act, and nobody here wants to be exposed to somebody advocating violence.

[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Imprisonment is the method employed to minimize violence.

You're thinking of torture.

[-] rockerface@lemm.ee 5 points 1 week ago

Isn't that the same thing in US?

[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Hurr hurr sick burn bro, lets set every single murderer free. /s

[-] rockerface@lemm.ee 7 points 1 week ago

Ah yes, because every single prisoner ever was imprisoned for murder, and was actually guilty

[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

The context of our discussion is highly specific, no?

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Benjaben@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

Just to give one more take (without contributing any hostility, I hope!) - one way to look at it might be that you see this new development (Thompson's murder and the nation's "hell yeah!") as the scary, dangerous step too far, whereas maybe many of us see the scary dangerous step(s) too far as having already happened (maybe long) in the past.

We're in a really scary situation as a country, and that was almost exactly as true the day before Thompson's murder as it is today. The significant events leading to our scary situation are a list of egregious misdeeds and manipulations by people in power, stretching back years - even if I take your premise that it's wrong, this is just yet one more event (if a notable acceleration). I sincerely believe that a few more gray hoodies might actually send things back in the right direction and bring the owner class back to the negotiating table. As it stands (and ~equally true two weeks ago), the social contract in this country is in tatters. The rich get everything, everyone else - nothing, not even the healthcare we already frickin bought.

Laws are not virtuous by default, is it a moral judgment against killing itself here, or is the problem that it was not a legal act? Of course don't let me reduce your position to one of my own two phrasings lol, but I am curious about the specific objection you have.

[-] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

I really appreciate your perspective. It definitely helped me feel better about how hostile the rest of the responses have been.

I do already share that same thinking that it has been pushed too far long ago, though slowly to an extent.

I guess I have trouble wrestling with how far of a distance there is between the CEOs actions and their effects having caused deaths of many. It seems that the logic of that makes obvious sense, but there's so many steps in between that it also seems so different from direct murder. Because of that distance of actions is what I feel makes it murder.

If we don't consider this a murder and then continue that logic, at what point of involvement with the company does it stop and then become murder?

Still, I feel like this action, that I still feel is very wrong, is starting to give the people more power and the voice we should have had all along. So the results of this have seemed to benefit the people who have been victims of the predatory health insurance system.

I personally don't ever want to feel good about killing another person. Even if justified. That just seems wrong.

[-] Benjaben@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Well, I can understand your point of view without sharing it. As for the hostility, beyond most folks just following whatever up/downvoting they see taking place already, there's a critical element here that shouldn't be missed - the positive response has been largely bipartisan, which is rare and valuable. And not only is it bipartisan, it points out an important truth which any resident of this country would do well to keep in mind -

At this stage of the game, we might be a hair's breadth from realizing that it hasn't been Democrats vs. Republicans for a long time, it's just all of us regular folks vs the abusive rich (+their enablers).

I'm reaching here, but if other people feel that way, I can imagine wanting to discourage anything that takes away from a sudden (much needed) feeling of unity.

[-] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

I'm just concerned about the lack of acknowledgement that this was a murder and the glorification of killing. Like I said before, I don't see why we can't feel good about what this has accomplished so far while also acknowledging that murder and killing is bad. It just seems like a mindless mob rather than a rally behind an ideology backed with logic.

[-] Benjaben@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

That's a consistent and reasonable take. Mob violence can be unpredictable and harmful to its own causes. I'm certainly willing to call it murder myself, while also being glad for it. And I condemn going after the person who called in the tip, for many reasons, but succinctly - that person cannot possibly bear enough responsibility for the state of things, even acknowledging the actions they sure didn't have to take, to be an appropriate target of anything like what happened to Brian Thompson.

[-] frostysauce@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago

Still a murderer.

I stopped reading there. You can fuck right off.

[-] cheers_queers@lemm.ee 10 points 1 week ago

yeah he probably saved lives, if he ends up changing the health insurance landscape because of this

[-] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Two things can be true. He can have done that and still have accomplished it via murder.

[-] mkhopper@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

The rose-colored glasses you're wearing must have really thick lenses.
Anyone who thinks that this one act will change anything is out of their minds.

Giant corporations exist to make money to satisfy the shareholders and pay those at the top exorbitant paychecks. They don't give the first flying fuck about their employees or customers, and this one act isn't going to change a damn thing.

We all wish it will, but I'm sorry to say, but it won't.

[-] A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

So you're seriously gonna tell the police to put their guns down while a dude breaks into your home and kills your family? Or are you just morally grandstanding right now

[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

I'm glad I'm not the only one on this boat. People are allowing their emotions to control them when they worship Luigi, worse than Trump supporters.

[-] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

The ceo killed more people than the shooter. So all murderers matter to you?

[-] Delphia@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

If its a yes or no question "Do you think Brian Johnson should have been killed?" My answer is No.

If you ask me "on a scale of 1 to 10 how much do you care about Brian Johnson being killed?" I'm going to ask if I can use decimal points because a 1 isnt low enough.

I can simultaniously not advocate for people murdering other people over their ideals and really not be too distraught when someone who pretty clearly has some sort of karmic retribution due gets their comeuppance.

[-] Abnorc@lemm.ee 5 points 1 week ago

You're right. What he did is murder and it's the job of the justice system to find him and convict him. I wouldn't feel bad if he wasn't caught, but it's still probably the right thing to do.

I don't seriously think that normalizing the murder of CEOs is going to fix things anyways, and it's not a democratic way of dealing with the problem.

[-] GladiusB@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

You have convicted him before the trial. Like he has his day in court. Years from now.

[-] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

The person seen shooting the guy in the video is a murderer. That is clear as day.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

I'm torn.

Yes, murder is bad.

But when someone is responsible for thousands of deaths and will continue to willingly kill for money, is taking them out justifiable?

If the CEO had been firing a weapon into a crowd, there's no question that killing him would have been justified. Is the fact that he killed with memos and board meetings rather than a gun actually relevant?

[-] krimsonbun 4 points 1 week ago

Nobody is denying he's a murderer. The question is whether it's based or not. I think it mostly is.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] Allonzee@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The allies murdered a lot of Nazis.

Whats the bfd?

War is mass murder, we just feel uncomfortable saying that so we're bullshitted into saying "it's not murder... It's war!" War being that thing where old men send young men to murder one another to either increase or retain their power.

Historically, murder solves shit, sorry. If the long arm of history truly does bend towards justice, thank murder, because the times passivism effected significant change are few and far between historically speaking. Sometimes the powerful goes too far in their decadence, they have, they limit the peasant's non-violent options, they have, and the alternative to violence is subjecting your kids and their kids to the very same cruelty.

Sometimes enough is enough. Peasants were murdered yesterday, are today, will be tomorrow in the name of profit.

It being sanctioned by our captured state doesn't make it not murder. Moreover it's not just murder, it's a one sided, ongoing slaughter for profit.

Luigi's single murder merely put a new spotlight on what some of us already knew for the rest. May all of us be judged by how we react to that spotlight. The ones calling it wrong and evil end of story responding "turn off that spotlight so we can go back to pretending our society isn't fucked right now."

[-] GhiLA@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago

Still a murderer

makes a seat at his table for this ""murderer""

load more comments (5 replies)
this post was submitted on 10 Dec 2024
1024 points (100.0% liked)

Lemmy Shitpost

27134 readers
3403 users here now

Welcome to Lemmy Shitpost. Here you can shitpost to your hearts content.

Anything and everything goes. Memes, Jokes, Vents and Banter. Though we still have to comply with lemmy.world instance rules. So behave!


Rules:

1. Be Respectful


Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.

Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.

...


2. No Illegal Content


Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.

That means:

-No promoting violence/threats against any individuals

-No CSA content or Revenge Porn

-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)

...


3. No Spam


Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.

-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.

-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.

-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers

-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.

...


4. No Porn/ExplicitContent


-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.

-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.

...


5. No Enciting Harassment,Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts


-Do not Brigade other Communities

-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.

-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.

-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.

...


6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.


-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.

-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.

...

If you see content that is a breach of the rules, please flag and report the comment and a moderator will take action where they can.


Also check out:

Partnered Communities:

1.Memes

2.Lemmy Review

3.Mildly Infuriating

4.Lemmy Be Wholesome

5.No Stupid Questions

6.You Should Know

7.Comedy Heaven

8.Credible Defense

9.Ten Forward

10.LinuxMemes (Linux themed memes)


Reach out to

All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules. Striker

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS