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submitted 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) by trespasser69@lemmy.world to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
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[-] twinnie@feddit.uk 113 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Let’s not cherrypick scenarios to try and pretend Linux is easier than Windows. Most normal people are nervous interacting with a GUI pop-up that gives them two options, never mind putting them into a terminal window where they could seriously fuck up their machine. What about clicking the download link on a webpage, clicking next a few times and having them software on your machine, compared to having to build something from GitHub (how many people here have never had to do that?).

[-] abfarid@startrek.website 54 points 8 months ago

This applies to pretty much all "Linux good, Win/MacOS bad" memes. I just assume that people either aren't really serious about them and it's just tongue in cheek, or they don't have any contact with regular people.

I used to work as a(n assistant to the) sysadmin and the things I got called over never stopped to amaze. For instance, there was a case when software was updated on the work machines and I got called because some lady couldn't use Adobe Acrobat. "It is asking me something, I don't know what". I come over and it's just a TOS Accept/Decline window.

Some people do not understand computers to an extent that they can lock up in a state of confusion when a button has been moved 100px in any direction from its usual position.

[-] prole 32 points 8 months ago

Most normal people are nervous interacting with a GUI pop-up that gives them two options, never mind putting them into a terminal window where they could seriously fuck up their machine

Maybe this is a problem that we should be addressing, rather than just making technology more of a black box, and raising generations of people who have no fucking concept of how any of it works.

[-] NoFun4You@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago

Lots of people don't care enough to learn

[-] oo1@lemmings.world 2 points 8 months ago

Those that do probably don't go to linuxmemes though.

[-] Exec@pawb.social 9 points 8 months ago

and raising generations of people who have no fucking concept of how any of it works

Only two generations were got to be technologically literate.

[-] KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 1 points 8 months ago

Greatest and Silent generations helped create computing, Boomers helped create important software such as DOS, Gen X and Millennials helped develop the Web, Gen Z is still going into computing and development jobs and Gen Alpha is too young to consider

[-] InFerNo@lemmy.ml 2 points 8 months ago

If you have a driver's license, do you know a car works besides the basic maintenance that is checking your oil and keeping the tires inflated? Some people don't even do that last one, while it's a thing you should check regularly.

I think it's a good thing the general public is able to use a computer without knowing the inner workings, but it also shouldn't be obscured from them if they want to know/learn.

[-] P4ulin_Kbana@lemmy.eco.br 1 points 8 months ago

There's also many people who can't afford technology, you know?

[-] twinnie@feddit.uk 1 points 8 months ago

But this is the classic Linux user mentality; Linux shouldn’t get easier, users should get smarter.

If computers can be easier to use then why should people instead sacrifice loads of time learning how to operate them? Most people have other things to be getting on with.

[-] aski3252@lemmy.world 25 points 8 months ago

Unless you have a system without a GUI, you don't need to open a terminal in order to update or install stuff. There is a GUI for that. And no, you don't need to build stuff from GitHub for normal user stuff..

[-] Noobnarski@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

I tried that on linux, it doesn't work if you want to do more than browse the web and other basic stuff.

You can do some seriously advanced stuff on windows using only GUIs

[-] aski3252@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

We were talking about normal user stuff that normal users do, not "seriously advanced stuff".. And I agree that most normal users probably don't want to use terminals because they are not familiar with them. But normal users probably don't and shouldn't do "seriously advanced stuff", no?

Yes, if you are trying to do "serously advanced stuff" (whatever that means), chances are you will probably need a terminal (or a terminal will at least be easier), but you shouldn't be doing "seriously advanced stuff" unless you know what you are doing anyway...

[-] Noobnarski@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

I just wanted to install steam, but it wasn't in the package manager list.

Then I tried apt-get and that didnt work, I forgot why.

You don't have to do seriously advanced stuff on linux to run into issues without using the terminal.

My point was, even if you actually do some advanced stuff on windows you still don't have to use the terminal.

It's not realistic that you don't have to use the terminal on linux if you want to do any more than web browsing and some text editing, etc.

That doesn't mean that linux is bad, but let's be realistic about what it is.

[-] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 8 points 8 months ago

That experience is highly dependent on the Linux distro you're using. Steam comes preinstalled on gaming-centric distros like Nobara or Pop!_OS. More "general purpose" distros like Mint or Ubuntu might require adding an apt repository before you can install steam from their GUI package managers, but adding an apt repo can be easily accomplished with a GUI as well.

Basically, if there's no guide for installing steam for a given distro, or the process of installing steam is more than a couple easy steps, that specific distro probably isn't well suited to run steam.

[-] Tin@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Weird, I would expect Steam to be in the Ubuntu repos (assuming that's what you were using, since you mention apt), but maybe not. As for apt, or apt-get, they are just the terminal equivalent of the GUI package manager (synaptic? it's been a minute since I ran ubuntu), so if something isn't in the repos, apt at the terminal won't find it either. If it's not in the repos, you should be able to download and install steam from the website just like you would in windows. It gives you a .deb file which will launch just like an executable installer in Ubuntu. But to your point, yes, sometimes things in linux take a little extra thinking to get to work. Getting accustomed to the way Linux works can help overcome hiccups like this. Windows has many quirks as well, it's just that if you use WIndows often you know your way around them.

[-] Avatar_of_Self@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

To install Steam on most distros with popular DE's, you click the software store to open the software store. If Steam isn't listed in the front page then just click the search box and start typing Steam.

When you see it, click the install button.

When it is done open it by clicking the Open button or pressing the Windows (or Super) key and type Steam. Click it when you see it.

[-] aski3252@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Even if it is, for whatever reason, not part of the repository you have installed, you can still go on steam's website and download the package from there.. In other words, the worst case scenario is literally the same experience as you would have on windows..

[-] aski3252@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

I just wanted to install steam, but it wasn’t in the package manager list.

Maybe you used Debian, which only allows free software in their default repo? But then you won't be able to just install it with apt either. But even if it is not in the repository, you could still go on steam website and download the package from there, so literally the same experience as on windows..

You don’t have to do seriously advanced stuff on linux to run into issues without using the terminal.

Like what?

It’s not realistic that you don’t have to use the terminal on linux if you want to do any more than web browsing and some text editing, etc.

10 years ago, or maybe even 5 years ago, I would have agreed with you. Not anymore though, not if you use a half-way beginner friendly distro..

[-] Noobnarski@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Yup, it was debian. I think I tried adding another repo, but gave up before I got it to work. I didn't try to just download the file, because I had done that before and all I could do is extract whatever is inside the file, but not install it.

It was around 2 years ago, maybe Linux has gotten that much more user friendly in the last two years, but I doubt it.

[-] aski3252@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

I use and love debian a lot for servers because it is super stable and relatively lightweight, but I definitely would not recommend it for desktops/notebooks, especially not to people new to linux based systems.

It's super purist about foss, which means you only get free and open source software (no steam, discord, etc) per default and it uses an older kernel (which makes it more stable, but less feature rich and less compatible with new hardware).

If you use something like fedora, linux mint (as far as I heard) or even ubuntu, your experience would probably be a lot better.

[-] IHateReddit@lemmy.world 21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

been using linux for a few years both on servers and my pc and I never had to build sth myself

[-] babybus@sh.itjust.works 13 points 8 months ago

Let’s not cherrypick scenarios to try and pretend Linux is easier than Windows. Most normal people are...

Let's not cherry pick users then. I don't care about your normal users. My experience is better on Linux.

[-] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Let’s not cherry pick users then. I don’t care about your normal users. My experience is better on Linux.

[-] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 12 points 8 months ago

Let's also not conflate "ease" with historical behavior.

Taking previous experience out of the equation, it is easier to type apt upgrade and reboot to update your entire system than to click through 300 times in the system and multiple apps with reboots.

That is a fact.

[-] uranibaba@lemmy.world 17 points 8 months ago

You don't even need the terminal. There is a interface to update if you are using a DE.

[-] NoFun4You@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago
[-] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 6 points 8 months ago

Huh? 3 clicks to update Windows, Adobe, Office, that random text editor, VSCode, Steam, on and on and on...

[-] Ooops@feddit.org 7 points 8 months ago

Most normal people are nervous interacting with a GUI pop-up that gives them two options

Sadly no. They should be nervous if it's about making changes to their system. In reality however Windows conditioned them to just click the button labeled "Yes" or "Okay" without even reading the pop-up in the first place.

[-] iopq@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Most normal people only ever use the browser. Even image or video editing is niche for the average person

[-] Avatar_of_Self@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Compiling from GitHub is cherry picking the worst case especially for "most normal people" and frankly they should be using the software store GUI in their DE to install and update software with nice easy buttons to click.

Frankly software management for a normal person generally is easier on Linux than it is on Windows for stuff made to run on Linux.

But don't worry someone will respond with nvidia's shitty proprietary drivers.

[-] mycelium_underground@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

nvidia's shitty proprietary drivers.

; )

this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2024
887 points (100.0% liked)

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