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this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2024
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So in recent weeks I've learned that furries are a lot more shunned than I thought, and it's one of those things like Bronies where it's not the subject of their obsession but the enthusiasm they have for the subject of their fandom.
I grew up with Disney and Warner Brothers classics, read the Albedo comic anthology and a few others, but don't see myself as a furry enthusiast (contrast my enthusiasm for late 20th century are we the real monsters? science fiction). Furry porn and furry-themed sex fantasies aren't particularly my scene, but this is true for the majority of furries as well.
But our society has gotten weird about furries and anthros, which I guess became evident when the US right-wing started spreading the litter-boxes in schools canard. Curiously, in the porn media community, animal genital shapes are a controversy, and mainstream media platforms that sell furry porn will not allow for anthros with canine or equine genitals. I think VISA specifically will not allow transactions for such works, which is stunning interventionism both in its overreach and specificity.
And then some social media sites have special rules for furry content, that even SFW furry content can only appear inside furry-inclusive perimeters... unless it's classical like Warner or Hanna Barbara. Wikipedia refuses to acknowledge Freefall (1998-present) one of the long-running fairly-hard-science-fiction webcomics (that gets into space-travel culture and robot culture), specifically because it has an anthro as a main character, more precisely, a genetically engineered wolf, next to a robot and a non-human trader.
It's not that furries are weird. It's that society is weird about furries.
I had an idea that the paws salute should become the official salute of the new resistance (since furries have been marked as a target for fascist enemy within rhetoric), but then trying to do some basic web searches, I couldn't find a proper conventional name for the pose, nor easy-to-find art of it, even though I've seen the gesture made by catgirls often enough to know it's a thing, and one of the salutes I might consider when standing before the firing squad.
In the last few years, I went from being resignedly a man to being enby, having become disgusted with how dudes obsessed with manhood have conducted themselves in our society. Before, I didn't care that much, and my own notions of what it was to be a man turned into adulting in the 2010s (take care of business; make sure rent and utilities are paid; don't do violence, especially when nuclear weapons are involved). Now men look like Matt Walsh and Donald Trump.
I'm not a furry or otherkin (yet), but considering how the furry community is among the untermenschen, I'm half-inclined to develop a fursona for sake of solidarity.
And I still think the paws salute should be the sign of the resistance.
I read somewhere that someone's attitude to furries is a great litmus test for how tolerant that person actually is (assuming that person isn't a furry, of course). I've always found myself mildly confused by furries (and I used to be somewhat weirded out because I mainly knew of furries because a friend bought a house from drawing furry porn). Hearing the litmus test thing helped me to chill out a bunch and recognise that seeing lots of furries in and adjacent to my community was a sign of a healthy social ecosystem, so to speak
I’m not really a furry but I like drawing anthropomorphic characters, but sometimes that alone is enough for some people to shun you and kick you out of groups no matter how much you try to be accommodating.
I could have enjoyed drawing only humans, only women, only scenery. No problem. But the minute I stick cat ears on a human, it’s a problem?
Yeah, I’ll cut my losses and hang out with someone else.
I don't understand them. I doubt I ever will. But I know I do not hate them. They're doing nothing wrong, hurting no one, leave em be. Simple.
God I need to get better at drawing
Furry here to confirm that Freefall is underrated as hell. In terms of really philosophical sci-fi that makes you think, I would genuinely put it on the same shelf as Star Trek.
I'll also mention that I would not classify Freefall as a furry comic. I read a lot of those, and Freefall ain't one. Florence Ambrose (the genetically engineered wolf in question) is one of three characters in the entire comic that could even remotely be considered furry, the other two being Sam Starfall, the captain of the ship on which Florence is an engineer, who is an alien in an environment suit that makes him look a bit like he stepped out of Club Penguin, and one whose name is a major spoiler who is a genetically uplifted chimpanzee (and looks exactly like a regular chimpanzee but is able to talk). All of the other characters are either bog-standard humans, humanoid robots, or robots that look like construction equipment. The only other reason you could even theoretically argue that Freefall is a furry comic is that Florence gets involved with a human in the comic's only romantic subplot. If that's true about Wikipedia refusing to cover Freefall because it's a furry comic, that's bullshit on a number of levels.
Politics is boring though. The rest of this comment is going to be me trying to convince you to read it.
The central premise of Freefall is this: humanity, a spacefaring civilization with faster-than-light travel, has created robots with full human intelligence, and have only just now realized this. Now what? What are the social and political ramifications of that? Over the course of Sam, Florence, and Helix's numerous adventures, Freefall discusses such varied topics as transhumanism, prejudice, the ethics of putting safeguards (restrictions on what an artificial intelligence is allowed to do and think) on what is, for all intents and purposes, a human mind, and how easily a suitably determined conscious mind can slip its bonds. (For proof of that last one, one need look no further than any place on the internet with a bad word filter.) Oh, and the author's libertarian political views.
Artificial intelligences using Dr. Bowman's brain design physically cannot disobey any properly qualified direct order from a human. There are virtually no limits on what these orders can do. For example, at one point, the mayor of the human colony where the comic takes place says to an artificial intelligence who disagrees with a political decision she recently made: "Direct order. You like me. You trust me. You want to make me happy. End order. Is that better?" The AI replies: "Emotionally, much better. Mentally, I think I'm screaming." Later, that same artificial intelligence reminds a different human: "If you ordered me to chew my own fingers off, I'd do it! If I'm ordered to destroy all the turtles in the world, I would try to carry the order out! If you have a system set up where a single person can cause an extinction level event, it's time to reexamine that system." At another point, one of many vice presidents at the company that makes the robots gives a particularly powerful robot a direct order to "Make me the richest man in the solar system within 30 days." The results of this can best be described as apocalyptic.
The comic also explores how well-intentioned safeguards programmed by humans can end up backfiring:
And how rule-based safeties can't stand up to full artificial consciousness:
My favorite thing about the comic, though, has to be Florence, and not just because I'm a furry. She is an incredibly smart engineer (Mark Stanley does his research! Most of the science discussed in the comic is legit), incredibly kind and understanding even to the worst of people, but not afraid to use force when necessary. Honestly, she's a better human being than any human being could ever hope to be. She is also, fundamentally, a dog. When there's no one around that she has to be professional in front of, she enjoys infodumping about quantum mechanics and running around on all fours and playing fetch with a frisbee, often simultaneously. Speaking of infodumping when you don't have to be professional, I'm not sure I'd classify Florence as autistic, but she's definitely neurospicy. She's completely levelheaded in crisis situations, she's terrifyingly smart, she's a self-taught engineer (when was the last time you met a neurotypical one of those?), she never hesitates to stand up for what she thinks is right and is willing to do anything necessary to save people she cares about (which is pretty much everyone), but she hates drawing attention to herself and prefers to fight from the shadows. (Okay fine I'm totally just gushing now but tell me you don't get this way about your blorbos. Words cannot express how much I wish Florence was real. And before one of you jackoffs says it, not because I want to have sex with her. I don't. I'm gay. I just have the biggest friend-crush ever.)
My second favorite thing about Freefall (after Florence, of course) is that it never fails to keep the tone upbeat. Even when discussing heavy-handed, uncomfortable philosophy, it ends nearly every strip with a joke. It never just says "this is an incredibly sucky situation" and leaves you on a downer. It always finds a solution that works out pretty well for everybody. Is that solution always perfect? No, but that provides a platform to explore its imperfections.
If you're convinced and you want to read it, you can see it in all its Web 1.0 glory here, or via this third-party mirror that, unlike the main site, supports HTTPS (yes, Freefall and its infrastructure are that old). If you'd prefer, you can read the entire comic as one big almost-infinite-scroll webpage instead of as a series of pages to click through here. One other thing to note is that the story of Freefall is still far from concluded: Mark Stanley releases a new page every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at midnight Eastern.
Sorry my thoughts on this are a little bit jumbled. I put this comment together rather quickly and sloppily, which I tend to do about things I'm passionate about and want to just get my thoughts out before the comment section becomes irrelevant. Lmk if you have any questions!
Likewise, fascists have been marked as a target for furry enemy within rhetoric, more or less since the first furries wearing Nazi shit showed up at a con.
One of the things I find myself reminding others about LGBT+ folk, is that we aren't intrinsically good, just normal. It took into the late 2010s before trans folk got to eat at the same table as LGB; gays can be prejudice and bigoted too, with people like Peter Theil being current extreme examples. (Granted, being LGBT+ gives folks more experience and perspective on what it is to be regarded as a second-class member of society, so they tend to have empathy, but this isn't always the rule, and as the gold-star lesbian movement has shown us, they can form their own classifications of prejudice.)
There are far right furry factions just as there are blacks and other non-whites in the transnational white power movement that is a superset of the White Christian Nationalist Movement. They exist, though they don't represent furries, even if they are eager for leopards to eat their own faces.
Humans are odd, and to me at the moment, looking at the 2024 US election results, indecipherable, and I hope that doesn't mean they're just extremely manipulable and short-sighted or vindictive (which is as it appears). But people often exert their political power against their own interests, and that will sometimes include furries.
Yes, furries seem to be the new group everyone is ready to hate no matter the political inclination. Gays are accepted more and more, trans people are far from safe, but at least have allies, furries seem to be the easiest target now. I need to learn the paws salute.
Please don't compare your love for cartoon animals to being lgbt
Tbf, furries are ⅔ LGBT.
There's research on that. Thanks, Canadian goverment.
Edit: ITT: Someone spends 10 fucking hours responding to every single reply thats even remotely empathetic towards furries, while being a wedge-issue little shit. This is so sad.
Furry or not; we are stronger together.
Tell me you don't know queer subcultures without telling me you don't know queer subcultures. Would you like to complain about drag shows while you're at it? I hear it is very in vogue at the moment.
While furries aren't a marginalized group, 99% of furry hate is a proxy for queerphobia and ableism, the criticisms are almost 1:1 with the shit those same people say about queer and autistic folk.
Why? If someone's identity as a furry is as much a part of them as your identity as gay, or for that matter, Marcus' identity as black, isn't it similar enough a violation that society deems you can't be that and be a full equal?
This, to me, is the problem. Mystique shouldn't have to hide her mutant status even though she could.
Wow, bigoted much?
The problem is, I only ever see furries when they're doing weird kink shit. I go to regional burns, and this last one had a small furry audience, not all from the same group. One day I was exploring on my bike and saw one of them doing a shadowbox strip tease. Later, another one (again, from a different group) wander into our camp wearing a diaper and holding a baby bottle. I know that the burn culture can be a little more sex forward, but I only seem to encounter furries at burns, and furries at burns only ever seem to be doing kink stuff.
Well, you’re only seeing a small subset of the culture. Most furries don’t do fursuits or cons or any of that stuff. Most are invisible, just like a brony or a Harry Potter fan or a comic nerd or whatever. It’s just an interest or hobby that you wouldn’t know about unless you knew the person.
I know someone who is into the general aesthetic of SFW "furry" stuff but is a bit weird about it because one of two things happens if she shares some content she likes:
Feels like there needs to be some better nuance between "I like furry style SFW art" and "I'm all into furry in the the way people guess". Not that there's anything wrong with the latter, but it's certainly something you should have to explicitly opt into rather than an assumption based on liking or doing a drawing or like wearing an animal ear headband or non-plug tail or something similarly innocuous.
what seems to help from what i've seen is to make it more cartoony and less, you know, suspiciously detailed..
it will of course not work 100%, but it at least sort of sets the tone of it not being sexual, like how mickey mouse generally manages to avoid being sexualized.
Sorry, furries are weird and will continue to be weird. Not the people who watch furry porn or cosplay furries, but those that actually think their furries and act that lifestyle, or the new buzzword, "identify" as such. It is cringe and indicative of mental health issues.
Yeah! You know what else is weird? You. For picking out a tiny subset of an already tiny community and picking on it like it is at all the norm. I can rip out a million tiny subgroups of groups and say "group" is and always will be weird because of "insert small subgroup here".
It's like people who say "I don't like abortion because it shouldn't be used as a birth control" like bokay, no one was doing that. Why are you fucking mentioning it?
SFW furry? There's kinda no such thing.
If it's identifiably furry then it tells me something about you and your sexual preferences that I didn't want to know. The same if you had a Bad Dragon sticker or an Ahegao sweatshirt. Just because it doesn't have explicit nudity doesn't mean it's not sexual and doesn't mean it's appropriate.
Y'all want to do things anonymously on the internet, great. Y'all want to have conferences or get together in spaces that support that, also great. You should absolutely have those spaces. But so many furries that I've met overshare about it. Don't use your fursona as your work profile pic. Don't tell me you're a furry when I didn't ask anything remotely related. Don't openly thirst over Judy Hopps. Ain't nobody going around saying "I like tentacles and I'm proud of it" - take a note.
You realize that you're the one sexualizing them, right?
There absolutely are people who have a fursona or participate in the fandom in completely SFW ways. A fursona tells you exactly nothing about their sexual preferences. Honestly you sound exactly like homophobes insisting that two boys holding hands is obscene. Just because you equate a fursona with sex doesn't mean that every furry thinks the same way.
Your point comparing furry haters to homophobes struck true to me. I don't know much about furries, but I live in the home of anthrocon and the annual furry parade is one of the most wholesome things this city has. Families and kids love to see all the costumes, and furries are some of the nicest folks I've met. I'm always a bit taken aback when people call them perverts - it seems like a harmless hobby to me.
From Wikipedia:
I don't have an issue with gay people. I don't have an issue with anybody existing or being who they are. I have an issue with repeatedly learning sexual things I didn't want to know about people, which has happened multiple times with furries specifically. Maybe I've been unlucky or something, but my experience has been that furries far more than other groups overshare and don't respect reasonable boundaries around this.
People who read a lot of books often enjoy the occasional smut. People who watch anime are probably more likely to watch hentai. It's not really surprising that people's passions and hobbies leak into their choice of pornography.
What in the useless statistics Batman? So because a large percentage of people who identify as furries have viewed (not actively view, not prefer, quite simply ~have~ viewed) furry pornography, the entire furry community must be a sex thing? That misses more than a few possibilities. Fuck, I've seen gay porn, and I'm not gay. As far as "learning something sexual about someone", unless you're calling learning someone has a fursona learning something sexual about them, this whole thing is a non-sequiter based entirely on anecdotal experience.
There's some self selecting bias there, going to a 'furry convention' is a rather steeper level of engagement than just, say, looking at a webcomic featuring art like this mascot here.
Those more hard core sexual furries scare off casual furries as well as folks a bit timid about being associated with the most... Forthcoming portion of the fandom.
It's rough on some as they want to engage without sexual interest in the aesthetic, but as a result get grouped in with those with a sexual interest. They want to identify as something, and furry is closest, but they aren't into the sexual facet and struggle with that broad association.
I know multiple furries personally who are asexual. You are speaking out your ass and fetishizing furries out of your own sexual repression.
Another day, another sensationalization of the sexual aspects of a queer subcultures. If it's not the "inherent sexualization of discussing gay people", or trans people as "autogynephillia and autoandrophillia', it's furries or kink at pride. It's really disheartening hearing the same tools of oppression being deployed over and over again.
What about people proudly showing things like this: 🏳️🌈
Please. I'd rather not learn anything sexual about a person.
/S
I like Dusk: an elysian tail. Its a nice game with fun mechanics. And is a SFW furry game, just the people its animal like.