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this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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NonCredibleDefense
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Okay but if we are guaranteed to lose without them, what's the harm in giving them what they want? Losing while taking the morally right position is never wrong. We spit in the Arab/Muslim/Palestinians/far left Americans faces and they stayed home on election day. So what's the harm in at least giving into their demands? The Republicans do that for their base and are winning even when they lose elections. So I'm arguing a change in tactics because we are literally taking the insanity route if we don't.
They dont have the morally high ground. They chose to help a fascist get to power. These idiots should never get what they want since they have shown to be completely brain dead. But to get to your point better. Giving them what they want means losing all pro israel people to Trump. Staiying between both positions gets people from both sides. However you cannot give the pro palestine people in america what they want since many want a genocide against israel instead which is just as inacceptable as the status quo.
Uhhhh no... Just no... Most Palestinian Americans don't want genicide to go the other way... And the people living in Palestinian don't have the capability to even have running water, electricity, airforce or navy let alone the capability to do a genicide so just no. Pro Isreal / pro genicide people were going to vote for Trump regardless... How about a no genicide party? Is that too much to ask?
Difference between you and rational people is we are trying to get the best and not just the least worst people. I voted blue but it's obvious change is needed.
Don't get me wrong, Hamas are the worst of the "other" side but that's why we would fight them as well if the roles were reversed. But I won't want to achieve that goal by killing 40k innocent people. I'd be just as upset and angry. It's asking for no genicide regardless of who's the perpetrator or whos the victims?!
And also your argument is the equivalent to saying those being surprised by a stronger power can only fight back by conviction means? Or that the Palestinian people having negative views towards religious fundamentalist who are literally killing and starving their friends and family, forfeit their lives for said negative views? For example if you asked jews people in concentration camps during WWII if they had negative views towards German people, and taking their answer as a determining factor on if they live or die... Nazi Germany also called jews freedom fighters in occupied Poland terrorist. And some of those freedom fighters committed horrific crimes against German civilians... Was Nat Turner a freedom fighter or terrorist? Were native American raids on settlements built on their ancestors land righteous or terrorism?
Hamas wasn't created in a vaccum.
Despite the high number of civilian casualties, Israel is actually doing a better job at it that the US has with their skirmishes in the middle east. It's not like they're not trying to minimize the civilian casualties, Hamas just makes it really hard by using their population as human shields.
Also, if you look at the videos of Israeli civilian hostages dragged thru the streets of Gaza after the october 7 invasion, there's a good number of palestinian civilians cheering. Would the Israeli population be doing the same thing were IDF to drag raped Palestinian women thru the streets of Israel? I doubt it.
Hamas is a death cult. There's no negotiating with them. The only solution is their complete destruction and showing the world that these views will not be tolerated. It's the average muslim who suffers the most because of these religious extremists.
Me: Let's stop all genicide and oppression everywhere by whom ever.
You: ummm actually if we didn't genicide them, they'd genicide us...
Me: The fuck?!
You: and America's modern genicides and atrocities were much worse...
Me: The fuck is wrong with you!
I feel bad for the Palestinians in Gaza of course. Not for their relatives in america who just helped put a fascist in power who will kill their relatives.
Anyone who didnt vote or voted for Stein is deserving of everything that will happen to them I hope their family in Palestine will cut them off because they have signed their life away.
And what's your solution to those with legitimate hangups? Sit behind a keyboard and call them idiots? There was no downside to being 100% anti genicide. There is no downside to be for universal health care. There's no downside to making education 100% free. There's no downside to fighting for income redistribution.
What's your solution to these real fucking problems? Because the democrats never truly tried any of these or even advocated for them. It's been this way since the new deal. A slow decay to Jim crow, women's suffrage, and xenophobia. We need new tactics because what you and the Democrat leadership is saying and doing isn't fucking working!
There is no solution. Idiots will stay idiots. They obviously dont give af about democracy or the lifes of anyone else but themselves.
As long as these idiots are alive they will keep handing the reigns to fascists who do exactly what the idiots punish the dems for.
All we can hope for is that american burns down quickly without too much damage to anyone else. So this time maybe something decent can be built on the remains.
Lol okay then way are voting. Why are you commenting? Rather than being proactive with a problem solving mindset you are just going to continue to do things that obviously don't work? This isn't some unavailable catastrophic outcome. This happened because people prefer to rip each other down than trying to lift each other up. If you aren't fighting for marginalized people everywhere, why do you get mad when they respond with apathy or anger when you demand they support your ideals? Everyone is copable in this presidential outcome. No one group or person is 100% to blame. My 2020 vote for Biden has blood on it and that doesn't sit well with me. I make up for it by doing more than just voting and insulting people on the internet. That's how you gain votes. Not whatever you are doing. The DNC could have let Palestinian Americans speak, but they didn't. They could have had a more left platform, but they didn't. This centrists agenda has a 33% success rate over the past three elections and when democracy is at stake can you really be calus to your base? I have history and facts on my side.
What's the definition of insanity?
Kamala Harris, the Democratic Presidential Nominee, lost. Because of her poor campaign tactics, she allowed a fascist to get into power. Are you equally upset with her for not doing what it takes to stop fascism?
If not, why was the "right answer" for this election to support Israel when we know that she lost following that tactic, and not supporting Palestine?
Obviously I am upset with Harris and her campaign. Since she became the candidate I have been critiquing her.
The right answer is not allowing a fascist to be elected. Supporting Israel is what Trump did too and even worse than Harris. Any pro Palestine voter with a brain would see that Harris is better for them.
Now they deserve everything Trump will do to them.
So the key to beating fascism in your mind was to platform the same policies, but a little less? What do you actually think Harris should have done differently that would have helped her win the election? Because clearly, doing the same thing but slightly less bad didn't work this time.
You are inventing straw men. No one seriously expects this of Harris, and there is a lot of room between 'reverse genocide' and what the Biden/Harris admin did.
If you give in to the "Gimme what I want or I want fascism" crowd they will keep asking for more. Many are already demanding Israel to be dissolved. So fuck these people. I will not shed a tear for them when they cry because Trump flattened all of Gaza.
Whooeee, scratch a lib eh?
Foreign policy is so far from a motivating factor for this country, why can't you just accept that the democrats are a failure of a party? They went further and further right looking for the 'Liz Cheney vote' and lost the popular vote because of it.
I'm not a lib. I am left.
The dems made stupid shit. I said so. It doesnt remove the blame of the fascists voting for Trump and the fascist enablers not voting to prevent Trump
Die mad I guess, but again, foreign policy just doesn't effect elections. You're mad at the wrong people.
I am mad at the right people. Those who held the stirrups for fascism.
They didn't cause this loss, the failures of the democrats did. Go yell at your politicians for failing to properly fight against fascism.
Fascism has a clear definition. Trump fullfills it. Are you one of these idiots who claimed Trump doesnt want to implement project 2025?
There is no left in america. Its useless pandering to them. There is only fascists, right wingers who are not fascist and enablers of fascism who didnt vote.
Are we. Is that what the demos say? Don't think black men and Latinos care about Gaza. The far left is so finicky and small
There is no left and esp. no far left in america.
Not any more there isn't. And soon, in the next few years, we'll see a systematic elimination of any remaining opposition, by means of oppression, suppression, and even more violent means.
There never was a left in america. What you call left os conservative in every country with a real political spectrum
If people refused to vote because both candidates support Israel, then whose to say that suggesting to withdraw that support wont make an equal or greater number of people to then vote for the candidate who does?