762
Unsealed FBI doc exposes terrifying depth of Russian disinfo scheme
(newrepublic.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 07 Sep 2024
762 points (100.0% liked)
politics
19097 readers
3979 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Laughs in AIPAC
AIPAC is based in the US and there is no evidence of foreign funds. I know it's shocking to hear, but there is a large Jewish population in the US that happens to endorse Israel.
The entities in this indictment went out of their way to circumvent FARA
Thank you so much for mentioning this, I've seen wayyyyy too many people say that AIPAC is foreign interference with no backing.
So all Russia needs to do is register ARPAC inside the US and no-one can touch them.
You need evidence to substantiate that FARA was circumvented by funneling funds from foreign entities.
If US citizens want to set up an entity and fund a lobbying group that supports Russia they are allowed to do so, but the money has to originate from US sources. Maybe take a few minutes to understand how the law works.
Why? Surely all PACs are fully transparent about the sources of their funds. Every dollar donated can be attributed to US citizens and, in turn, they can prove none of their income came from overseas.
Yea. Except that's not how any of this works. You have a really cartoon level understanding of how finance works and how these orgs are audited. The world is not a James Bond movie where some rando hacks a linux terminal and breaks into the IMF.
Arguing about levels of understanding is irrelevant.
The point is that whatever works for AIPAC can be replicated for the Russian equivalent ARPAC.
Yea. And the point is you have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe take some time to read up on how FARA and finance regulation works?
The point is all I'm doing is swapping the word Russia for Israel. All the same laws apply.
But you're assuming that the Israeli government has some connection to AIPAC, it doesn't. Sure some Americans could start a homegrown fully American Pro-Russia PAC, just like AIPAC, and that would be completely legal, but that's not what happened here.
If a homegrown fully American Pro-Russia PAC was started, how could we be sure there was no Russian government involvement? Donations are opaque.
The same way we prosecute all other breakings of FARA such as this one and all others, the donations aren't so opaque that the DOJ/FBI can't investigate it and figure out what's happening, just as they did here.
Do you think they walk around with millions of cash in bags with dollar signs on them??? How do you think money moves around or these orgs are audited?
If you don't understand a topic, it's OK. Say "I will do some research".
I don't argue with people about quantum string theory because I don't understand it. It's OK. Just take some time. All the information is out there. It's not as complicated as string theory, but if you put some time and heart into it you can get to the bottom of this conundrum.
Let's try a simple experiment.
Show me a breakdown of AIPACs sources of funds and spending. It doesn't to be a nicely presented infographic (although it should). Just link me to the data.
I don't understand the hubris in online discussions. Do you see me going around debating string theory with anyone? It's Ok to say 'I don't know'. The world would be so much better if we all just were a bit more honest. No one will think less of you. In fact, they'll respect you more.
It's not on us to hold your hand each step of the way to explain how finance regulation works or how difficult it is to move the large sums of money we are talking about. You made the claim AIPAC is circumventing FARA and that anyone can set up a lobby group tied to foreign funds easy like opening up a PayPal account. This betrays total ignorance of how much you understand about finance regulation. In order to even start a conversation we have to unpack all of FARA and everything else tied to finance regulation. I'm not obbligated to 'show you the sources' of AIPAC funds because you don't even understand the foundations of what we're talking about. So pump the breaks big guy.
We are not here to hold your wee wee every time you need to pee, but here you are, pissing in the pool so we have to put up with conspiracy theories day in and out.
A lot of words just to say that we don't know anything about AIPACs finances.
Russia just needs to copy the Israeli lobbying model.
YOU made the claim. Show us the evidence (you won't) that AIPAC circumvented FARA.
Either:
Which is it?
No. I stated that Russia can follow the AIPAC model, set up ARPAC, funnel money to some American donors and influence the election perfectly legally.
You're not tracking the convo.
Its the "funneling money" part you're not getting. They can't just PayPal it to their buddy.
I'm a US citizen living abroad. If I have over 10k in my account it triggers my bank to notify FBAR and they have to report it to the IRS - and that's not even an America bank!
At this point we're looping.
Overpay for services. Pay for non existing services. Use intermediaries. There are many, many laundering techniques and Russians are not stupid.
The point is that the shady thing happen at the donor level. The PAC stays clean and above board, and it's financial practices remain opaque.
Yes. You're right. If only we didn't think of that! Damn. Thank you Knock knock. I will pass the info along to AIPAC. Thank you.
No...To get around FARA they could never fund it, or ever coordinate with its leadership, just how AIPAC is funded entirely by US citizens and is ran entirely by US citizens, and has zero connection to the Israeli government.
Which makes sponsoring an organization like this incredibly risky, which is why almost no one does it.
Then so too can the American Russian Public Affairs Committee be funded entirely by US citizens, ran entirely by US citizens, and have zero visible connection to the Russian government.
No connections at all unless abiding by FARA yes, that would be legal. That's not even close to what happened here.
So we agree AIPAC should register under FARA. Sign here
No? How did you even get that impression? I literally just said AIPAC has no connection to the Israeli government, therefore it shouldn't be registered with FARA.
Also lol, Change.org really?
Coordination with Israeli officials
Rabbi Alexander Schindler, former chair of the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations (a US advocacy group), told an Israeli magazine in 1976, "The Presidents' Conference and its members have been instruments of official governmental Israeli policy. It was seen as our task to receive directions from government circles and to do our best no matter what to affect the Jewish community."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_States
Wow one dude said something similar to them being Israeli controlled over 30 years ago, it totally must be true then. /s.
This isn't evidence of anything
It is evidence.
Of course AIPAC is government controlled. It does nothing against their interests and everything for them.
Attempting to argue the contrary is disingenuous.
It's been a really common talking point on right on the alt right for a while. To this day, no evidence has been substantiated to support this claim.
Bro. The traitor John Roberts has opened up the floodgates of foreign money in our political system. Come on, now.