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Kyle Rittenhouse criticized Donald Trump. So conservatives said he's transgender.
(www.lgbtqnation.com)
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this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2024
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politics
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Actually. Scratch my last comment. I want your advice.
We've had disagreements before and every time you seem to go all seem to devolve into the same labeling and accusations of bad faith.
What is the appropriate way to express disagreement or question a mainstream narrative on this platform in such a way I don't get labeled something (ie the way you did when you called me zionist or Dean browning here). Give me some pointers. I want to get better.
Don't say vague stuff ( don't lie etc). Pretend I'm asking in good faith. Actually try to engage with me as if I was a human being.
That's usually a sign that you have a tendency to argue in bad faith and to pretend to be something other than what you self-label as.
You want to learn how to argue in good faith? Take a course in rhetoric and one in ethics. While I'm able to argue in good faith, I'm neither inclined nor qualified to teach people foreign to the concept how to.
There's suspension of disbelief, there's putting completely justified skepticism aside, and then there's this. I might as well pretend that you're the sultan of Brunei or my cat 🙄
I have this whole time. That I've called out your dishonesty and misconceptions while doing so doesn't in any way dehumanize you. Stop being such a Drama Dean.
Aaaand I just lost all respect for you.
Oh woe is me! How will I ever cope without the respect of some rando slinging false equivalences? 😭
While I'm disappointed by all this because we've had some good conversations here in the past, a quick view of your post history shows me those were the exception, not the rule. You frequently deflect, project, fabricate, and ultimately insult to attack opposing viewpoints, all the while wrapping yourself in a banner of legitimacy by claiming the other is illegitimate, simply for being the other. You determine they're the other by pulling frequent "no true Scotsmans" based on the flimsiest proof. All of this just like the MAGA fascists did to Kyle Rittenhouse as described in the linked article. For what it's worth, we're on the same side on Rittenhouse, though I now know you'll use that as evidence I'm a MAGA plant, a fake leftist, or something similar.
You're so afraid of facing someone on an equal playing field that you burn and salt the field as a matter of course. Or maybe you just believe what you think of right is the ultimate truth so strongly that you feel justified in bludgeoning people that disagree. Or maybe you're just a bully that enjoys what you do. Who knows.
Literally none of that is true of me and a lot of it is true of others in this thread, including yourself in the very comment I'm replying to right now.
Be better.
LOL
But you go to the bad faith accusation right away. You waste no time. It's usually 1-2 comments in. As a person on the left, I can never disagree with any of the positions our side takes. It's absurd. Even here, I'm asking you for genuine advice. Sincerely. From one human being person to another, and the best you can do is "take a course on rhetoric". You never even gave me a chance.
I never called you out as bad faith. I never labeled you. I never accused you. You still put me down. Your tone is dismissive and derisive. Why? What did I say exactly that triggered this reaction? I"m genuinely curious.
It's not worth arguing with these people. They're so antigun that they'll defend the domestic abuser, the child molester and felon because they hate guns. Even though one of the people they defend had a firearm there illegally... they're also very very ignorant about the case. The last time this shit came up, there were people on here saying Rittenhouse killed 3 black people.... that's how fucking ignorant they are.
These people are the equivalent of the rightwing maga idiots. There is zero discussion you can have with someone who is willfully ignorant of facts.
I know. But look at the vote ratio. It's a lot of them. I never get to discuss the substance of any topic because I have to spend 90% the time defending why i'm not a conservative. Sometimes I wonder if its a limitation of text based communication where tone is inferred. Or maybe people are captured by epistemic bubbles. I have no idea! I'm going to keep trying though. There has to be a way to communicate with them.
Good luck, I'm always labeled a rightwing nut job because I'm a die hard 2a supporter, even though I support a ton of social policies that focus on helping our citizens here. The hard left are so afraid/mad about firearms they're willing to ignore facts and create conspiracies to justify their actions. They're the magas of the left, which sucks because most of those types always act like they're intellectually more honest than the right.
To be fair, they're not the hard left. Hang with enough actual socialists and communists and you'll hear a lot of comments to the extent of a "well armed proletariat". These tend to be United States neoliberal centrists, who believe they're hard left because their Overton window has been yanked hard to the right.
That's a fair assessment. I've always said, if the dems want to completely destroy the repubicans and make force a new party to come from the ashes of whatever is left. All they would have to do is drop their anti-2a rhetoric and they'd sweep pretty much everything.
You're getting downvotes for it but you're right. Once the Republican party collapses I expect the Dems to change their stance to pull voters from their challengers on the left.
I'm assuming you're an adult and probably already know this, but don't drive yourself crazy. Step back and disconnect from this if it's stressing you out.
I'm a dyed in the wool progressive and used to frequently argue with libs about my being in favor of responsible firearm ownership. I've learned to just ignore them if they're being assholes or are arguing in bad faith, as I see is the case here with a few users who can't stop trumpeting how they're arguing in good faith. Funny, that.
Yea, thanks. I had hopes for lemmy because the user base was smaller, but at this point i think all online forums are epistemically captured by one side or the other.
Your problem is that you're on lemmy.world, one of the big instances that skews left because lemmy users in general do.
Find yourself a right-wing lemmy server. You'll be happier there without any lefties to contest your claim of leftism.
I don't want to hang out with conservatives. I'm for socialist left values. The only thing I asked is if it was murder or self defense because I know the narrative that is typically spun here is devoid of the facts.
When I got o argue with conservatives about this pos idiot kid (Kyle R) they point to all the misinformation that trickles out of this narrative from the left and my job doubles.
My end game is to not make it easier for conservatives to whitewash what happened. But if we can't even BEGIN a conversation about what happened that day then I don't know what to do. I've tried it in the past when this was brought up and the outcome was the same: every thread devolved into the label campaign "you're a conservative" / "you're defending a pos" / "youre a fascist" etc etc
And yet, you persisted.
Stop trying to relitigate a case on behalf of a murderer who will never thank you for being "on his side", maybe?
I'm not interested in defending Kyle. I just want the facts of the events to be clear. If just that is enough to trigger so many of you... I don't know. Its sad.
Lol you just labeled him right wing hahaha fucking hell you people are ignorant as hell.
Oh man. If you think .world skews left, I know some instances that could blow your Overton window wide open.
I agree with the other chap. The issue is you're on .world, but because it's because .world is full of centrist neoliberals that think they're leftists. Blahaj, in my experience, is a nice compromise between .world and .ml.
Y' know, for someone that's accusing others of being obsessed with labeling, you sure do seem to be concerned with labels. Interesting.
Ah, that glorious sense of superiority. Please, enlighten us others with your rarified intellect! We lowly heathens know not what we do!
I'm not obsessed with labels man. Engage with what I actually wrote ffs. All I'm saying here is maybe my messaging is bad. No matter how I write, you guys will zoom in on if im a conservative or not. If I don't write that im a progressive, then I spend the whole time explaining why i disagree with conservatives. If I write that im left/progressive, then i spend the whole time debating whether im an impostor. As long as my opinion strays .02% from yours I will have no opportunity to discuss ANYTHING
As long as my position doesn't align with yours thats all I hear.
You can't discuss your position without first clarifying what side of the aisle you sit on, and yet, you don't care about labels...
K.
I can't win.
Quit trying to "win." Quit virtue signaling how "left" you are. You'll lead a happier existence if you're not so hung up on how others see you.
I don't mean "win" as in winning a debate. I mean "win" as in there is no possible way to have a discussion on ANYTHING with someone like you because you've decided the outcome long before the conversation has even started. In this whole debacle we didn't get to address anything except your incessant attacks on the integrity of my political alignment.
If you didn't contradict yourself then we wouldn't be having this discussion..
Can you clarify which contradiction exactly? I'm not understanding what your point is.
You say you're "left", but you trust the US court system to judge decide who is or isn't a murderer.
That kind of legalism is for neoliberals, not leftists.
I see. So the courts and institutions are not to be trusted.
I have no idea what left means after today. I'm for universal Healthcare, gun reform, higher taxes. Etc. I don't know what you call that.
Liberalism.
You literally just did what we're talking about lol
"I'm a Leftist" counter: 1,230,579,078 instances this thread and counting folks!