[-] Mezentine@startrek.website 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Honestly this episode feels written by Sondheim fans more than anything, which is why all the G&S references were so odd to me lol. Definitely less focus on "fun" but I think all the lyrics were really clever and expressive and the way that all of the songs felt like they reinforced character work successfully was a feat even if none of them are particular "catchy" in that ear-worm way. Company is probably my favorite musical of all time but its pretty hard for me to hum you anything from that show

[-] Mezentine@startrek.website 12 points 1 year ago

I'm not a vet and I don't have PTSD but my girlfriend and I had some pretty similar issues to you with this episode. I think, thankfully, the episode doesn't seem to expect us to think that M'benga was "right" at the end, or to be happy about what happened, and the final scene between him and Pike is critically important because I don't think Pike is supposed to look foolish in that scene. Absent that, this episode would feel really gross to me.

As it is, really the only way I can work with this is knowing that the actual arc here is the enormous one that concludes with Star Trek VI, a movie that I feel only gets more radical with every year that passes and every rewatch I give it. Kirk's realization that he has to let go of all the pain and anger in that movie and allow the world to move on and healing to begin is, when you get down to it, maybe the most optimistic and important message the franchise has ever really tried to express, and if this episode exists as a "middle chapter" between the war itself and that eventual endpoint...well...I can work with it as that middle chapter. But I still feel pretty crummy about it.

[-] Mezentine@startrek.website 7 points 1 year ago

Although it does remain very funny that they're doing this much work to make us care about Sam Kirk, a character who's fate is to die off screen to a brain parasite before the episode even starts. Sorry Sam.

[-] Mezentine@startrek.website 11 points 1 year ago

I really really like Pelia as a character and a concept. I think its a very smart approach to immortality to have her be someone both used to and unresistant to change. The world happens. Time moves on. Over centuries kingdoms turn into empires turn into wastelands turn into spacefaring cooperatives and she's not jaded nor stagnant, she just continues to grow and adapt and change as things change around her.

[-] Mezentine@startrek.website 5 points 1 year ago

It's almost a throwaway line but I'm pretty sure she implies 21st century Romulans are interfering with Earth independently, and she's running a parallel mission?

[-] Mezentine@startrek.website 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What you think "enhancement" means now is very different from what people might have said "enhancement" meant in the 60s which is very different from what they thought "enhancement" would have been in the 20s and is very different from what we might think it means in the 2050s. Homosexuality used to be a mental disorder, and it would have been an enhancement to "cure" it. There would have even been gay people who would have voluntarily taken that cure because of the distress society subjected them to, there are records of patients coming to medical professionals looking for treatment. I like the alternate solution to that problem we're currently making progress towards, in which we accept and support that there are diverse ways for people to exist, and I do not trust that we have correctly figured out what things about human being are currently "wrong" and which things can be "improved"

[-] Mezentine@startrek.website 3 points 1 year ago

Splitting into separate cities is way more reminiscent of ghettos, which is extremely dark. I don't think the show quite grapples with how monstrous this actually is, ignoring my concerns about the gene modification stuff as a metaphor, if we take it on face value as a signifier of marginalization this is not some cultural bias the Federation needs to work through, what's described is borderline genocidal.

[-] Mezentine@startrek.website 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Which is insane. Its not my biggest problem with this episode but the revelation that the Federation has had like...violent pogroms against augments with children being arrested and what sounds like ghettos is incredibly bad? Its presented as an example of how "unfairly" augments have been treated, but that's not unfair treatment, that's borderline genocidal. It puts a way darker spin on the Federation than I think the writers were intending, like I don't think even DS9 in its attempts to deconstruct utopia ever implied anything half as monstrous.

[-] Mezentine@startrek.website 4 points 1 year ago

The danger is in what gets defined as a "defect". I think we'd all be comfortable fixing congenital heart failure before birth, and I (hopefully) assume we'd all be very uncomfortable with "fixing autism". There's a big blurry area between those two things, and I think Trek has largely correctly tended on the conservative side.

But I like how this theory ties the timeline together in a way that makes a bit more sense, because the "risk of another Khan" is not, at this point, the most interesting problem with gene editing in Star Trek to me

[-] Mezentine@startrek.website 7 points 1 year ago

The danger of letting parents choose modifications they think will serve their children in life is exactly what Bashir expresses in DS9: it gives parents, and society more generally, the power to determine what's acceptably "normal" and flatten out anything that deviates. Geordi similarly expresses at least twice that he doesn't want normal vision, that his blindness is not a defect that needs fixing and what's utopian about the Federation he lives in is that his difference is accommodated and supported.

I've always really appreciated Star Trek's hardline stance on this, because its a moral problem that I feel we've lost a little bit of sight of and is going to emerge again in the next few decades in real life. I think you could make a case for the Ilyrian environmental adaptation being different, but to do that you would have to explicitly place it against the real arguments against gene editing and work through them, and this episode went in a different direction.

[-] Mezentine@startrek.website 3 points 1 year ago

It was trying to do that, but then doesn't have the time or space to set up how the Federation is going to regard Ilyrians going forward, or if anything is going to change. Its like they settled on "gene modification" as the one discrimination they thought the Federation held onto in the future and slotted it in for story purposes, but without the space to actually deal with the reasons why its taboo. Ironically I think if they had made it about something closer to an actual religious practice and said "Discrimination still exists in the future, lets talk about it" this episode would have worked way better for me

[-] Mezentine@startrek.website 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What I can't get out of my head this morning is actually Bashir's plotline with his parents on DS9, because it captures what's so insidious about even "benevolent" genetic modification. He's not angry at them just because they broke the law, he's angry at them because they decided they didn't like who he was and chose to transform him into someone else, someone he feels is a different person. And this is actually the fundamental argument against a social program of gene management in real life; it allows society to police what types of bodies and what types of minds are "normal" and flattens species diversity and experience diversity in favor of whatever the norms say is "better". The danger isn't just the risk of Khan like supermen, its a moral argument against determining how people's bodies and minds are going to develop before they can even consent, even before they're born.

As strongly as I feel about this, I do think you could create a case for why what the Ilyrians do is meaningfully different, the "adapting to other planets rather than making them adapt to us" idea is interesting and complicated, but it felt extremely cursory in this ep

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Mezentine

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