347

Trembling at my small talking skills (lemmy.ml)

submitted 2 years ago by Napain@lemmy.ml to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world

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[-] camelCaseGuy@lemmy.world 41 points 2 years ago

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

[-] philluminati@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Only socialism and communism try to ensure everyone survives. This isn’t really an attack on capitalism. This is also the reason we have nationalism, racism etc, no?

In any case, technology and efficiency mean we could support more people being alive and with better lives if we really did want to. Plus there’s the potential of mining and colonisation of space. We’ve barely scratched the surface. Vertical farms might be the future.

[-] silentashes@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 years ago

But that wouldn’t generate as much profit, see! You gotta have Scarcity, otherwise ya cannot jack up the prices so high!

also: permaculture regenerative agriculture ecological stability dynamic equilibrium etc

also, news: India’s regenerative water permaculture development

[-] Ruxias@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

The pitfalls of our current systems preclude us getting to the point of utilizing space to any meaningful extent. Better to forgo the hypothetical Star Trek romanticized fiction and just fix what we have here; then maybe we can think about that stuff.

At this stage, the mere mention of any such possibility is a distraction from the gravity of the situations we face. It's a mere tool to keep the apple cart going, while people are literally dying from our own collective hubris.

[-] vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 years ago

Better to forgo the hypothetical Star Trek romanticized fiction

As old Star Wars EU fan, I agree.

Jokes aside, yes, anything done in space is for now much less efficient.

[-] JasSmith@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

[removed by mod]

[-] Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I would also contend that the outcomes for those living under communism are vastly inferior to those living under capitalism.

You're wrong. Socialism objectively provides a higher physical quality of life to its citizens when compared to capitalism at an equal level of development.

The notion that there are no corruption issues in capitalist countries is also bizarre. Are you perpetually anglo-brained in that you only think of the western imperial core when you think about "capitalism"? You are ignoring most of the world.

20million people die to easily preventable things under capitalism around the world every single year. Hunger, clean water, curable disease. Things that we can solve immediately with the resources we already have simply by having leadership that decides to do so. The fact you think this is reasonable is frankly disgusting.

[-] JasSmith@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

[removed by mod]

[-] Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

That’s a pretty big switcheroo there. Communism isn’t socialism, and the socialism as described in the link is called democratic socialism. I.e. democracy with redistribution. Which all Western countries practise. Your link reinforces my premise.

This is ideological illiteracy. Socialism is the transitionary stage between capitalism and communism. All communist states have been socialist states because no society has progressed far enough to reach communism.

Nobody claimed that. You keep making up straw men. We’d have a more productive discussion if you just replied to what I wrote.

The implication was that it is worse in communist countries.

That the rate of hunger has dropped precipitously while population has exploded in the most impoverished regions is testament to the incredible achievement of capitalism. Child mortality is at an all time low. You’re arguing that because things aren’t perfect, capitalism is bad. Clearly the world isn’t so black and white. No system of resource allocation is perfect, least of all communism.

Take China out of that data and it practically flatlines. It has not improved in capitalist countries, China is responsible for almost all of it.

But really this isn’t about capitalism. It’s about politics. We can choose to tax people more and redistribute locally and abroad. We choose that when we vote. Capitalism just ensures we have lots of resources and products and services.

If that were fucking possible under capitalism it would ALREADY BE HAPPENING. The parties presented to you under BOURGEOISE DEMOCRACY are BOURGEOISE parties. They are not parties of the people, they are parties of the bourgeoisie and the entire system is designed to maintain that. When your only options are parties of the bourgeoisie the outcome is that the winner represents the bourgeoisie.

The only solution to this problem is to overthrow the existing bourgeoise democracy and install a proletarian democracy instead, the result of which being that all the parties under the proletarian democracy represent the proletariat. This is what a socialist state is institutionally. The antithesis of a capitalist state institutionally.

[-] JasSmith@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

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[-] Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

You claim me to be “ideologically illiterate,” then go on to agree with me that socialism isn’t communism. That doesn’t speak well of your reading comprehension or intentions.

Two sides of the same coin. Socialists all understand that socialism is the transitionary stage between capitalism and communism.

I didn’t make any claims about corruption. My claims are with outcomes, which I maintain are worse under communism.

Prove it. I cited research that shows you are wrong, you're simply ignoring the facts.

Child mortality has trended down over the last century in almost every capitalist nation, not just China. Even the really corrupt African nations.

Wow one data point! Incredible. Now do deaths from starvation, lack of clean water and curable disease. 20million die per year.

No, and this is the central argumentative failure under this dogma. Maybe people just don’t want mass redistribution? Maybe what you want isn’t what everyone else wants? Is that really so hard to accept as a possible reality? The Frankfurt School accepted this in the 1930s under the premise that “people’s lives are just too good under capitalism to ever want to move to communism.”

Holy shit your argument is "I don't want these people to live so it's ok". Colonial brained monster.

[-] Ruxias@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

That might be the stated intent, but it seems plain that once the leaders are in positions of power and authority, they abuse their power. This is why, as fallible as is democracy, it is superior.

Do you think that socialism/communism is not a democratic system?

[-] vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 years ago

Only socialism and communism try to ensure everyone survives.

Except for the "enemies of the people" and the "bourgeoisie", right?..

[-] vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 years ago

Vertical farms might be the future.

WDYM "might", it's already happening, just slowly. Not every modern city has lots of skyscrapers.

Plus there’s the potential of mining and colonisation of space.

Very limited. Though I like the idea of toroid stations with mirrors in L points, like Stanford torus, which is IIRC not considered cool now due to being expensive and complex to build.

Maybe not toroid, but asymmetric rotating pendulum-like thing, with another end being ballast. For gravity.

Anyway, you don't realize how much less efficiency existing on Earth requires. It's really easier to fix our shit here before going into space. Space is so cool that it's worth the effort, but real colonization doesn't make sense economically yet.

[-] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 years ago

Ah, I have a friend like that. We don't invite him to parties anymore.

[-] asphaltkooky@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

Ah, welcome to our NFT talk.

[-] MrShankles@reddthat.com 5 points 2 years ago

Lmao, alright alright... ya got me with this one. Just saying thanks for the little laugh

[-] Ghyste@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The shitpost communities have more (and better) memes than the meme communities...

Edit to pluralize.

[-] i_lost_my_bagel@seriously.iamincredibly.gay 2 points 2 years ago

Thanks unbearable abyss

[-] riodoro1@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

ArEnT yOu fUn At PaRtIeS

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this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023

347 points (100.0% liked)

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