The irony of their efforts is that it only proved to show that they could easily begin influencing users which is the key argument being used against them.
I'm still not sure what my feelings on the subject are. I don't use the app myself, but besides its connection to a company in China and, therefore, the Chinese government, it seems to do the same exact tracking and algorithm manipulating that every other social network does.
TikTok has always been on the extreme end of tracking and surveilling its users. For example, research found that the app had the ability to record all keystrokes made by users in the in-app browser (i.e. keylogging). This kind of tracking is way beyond what other social media companies do and borders on malware.That's one reason why the US, Canada, and others banned the use of TikTok on government devices.
A former TikTok employee also alleges in a sworn statement that TikTok stores its user data in China, that the CCP has full access to this data, and that the CCP used this data to spy on protestors in Hong Kong.
So their tracking goes way beyond what other companies do, and China uses that data for expressly political goals rather than simply selling ads to users.
Does Facebook not also do that? I remember there being some controversy a few years ago about them logging statuses that were typed out, but ultimately not posted.
The paper states that they studied the HTML form element interactions but “not the keystrokes or content.”
There's a big difference. Both are more invasive than we would like, but grabbing everything you type while in the app's browser is much worse than measuring a true or false "did this person submit their comment or did they give up and leave it unsubmitted."
Tiktok is getting the content of the text, which could be sensitive info, and it grabs from every site you visit, not just the social platform itself.
But I think the main issue is using the data for allegedly targeting of protestors and Chinese political opponents, more than the depth of the data collection itself.
logging statuses that were typed out, but ultimately not posted.
That's common practice across the web. For example in a lot of social networks (not Lemmy) if I were to close this reply box without clicking the "Reply" button, I'd simply be able to open it and my half written reply would be restored.
It's not about gathering data on users, it's about saving users from accidental deletion particularly on touch screens where it's so easy to accidentally brush the wrong button.
Also I'd argue anything you intentionally type into a facebook status message box, is something you're happy to share with facebook and everyone on your social network. There's no expectation of privacy and we self sensor what we type into that box.
Logging key strokes is different, there's no reason to record that anything you record (other than actually typing messages) is likely to be something the user intended to type somewhere else but didn't realise which browser window had keyboard focus.
They would be picking up all kinds of things including passwords.
You think Meta and Alphabet don't track your inputs?
Lmao.
I definitely see issues with how it targets young people so aggressively and can have a huge negative impact on their mental health. China can essentially use it as a tool to lower the mental health of our youth and spread misinformation on purpose. The fact that the version available in China emphasizes educational content and limits usage per day shows that they know exactly what they are doing with the international versions.
Ties not just to “a company in China”, but directly to the Chinese government.
For better or worse, and how other US platforms operate, Tik Tok is controlled by a hostile (to the US) nation state.
Keep in mind that China also blocks many US company products/platforms for their own reasons, so this is not at all a surprise.
my teaching thrives on TikTok
If a teacher mandates students to stream lectures over TikTok, I’m raising a formal complaint. There is at least a dozen better options.
I think they’re using “teaching” here in a way neither you nor I would. Because there’s no way they can put any lessons in front of the right students. That’s the algorithms decision. And those signs reek of astroturfing.
Where are you seeing that? Searching the article isn't showing that text.
Sign held by a "protester" in the picture
Its one of the signs in the picture.
American phones were geolocated and TikTok users were locked out of the platform until they called their members of Congress.
Holy shit. Is that true?
They should be banned today if that's real.
When contacted about those allegations by the BBC, TikTok provided the statement: "With regards to users being locked out of the app until they called, that is false. All users had two methods for dismissing the notifications."
Probably the usual hidden grey button "dismiss" over greyish background, just as Google, Microsoft and some other do.
If it were true yeah. In reality they are just shitting themselves because people on TikTok are broadcasting the genocide funded by US tax dollars and literally using American made bombs
Question...
I don't use tiktok. I have a Twitter account. Why is tiktok bad while a privately owned social media platform (twitter) that's partially financed by Saudi Arabia and Qatar not bad?
Twitter / X gets railed on nonstop. Where are you getting the idea that anyone thinks it’s not “bad”?!
To me, that's the only complaint I have about this, that they're singling out Tiktok.
But, im not against it because the US has always singled out "the biggest guy" to set a precedent, which then causes all tbe smaller social media platforms to get their shit together. From Microsoft, to Google, to Facebook.
it's not. all social media has the same risks but tiktok is obviously the worst because it's Chinese.
I guess a video platform with content identical to youtube is bad if it's Chinese.
Well, it is slightly different. The reason TikTok poses a different type of problem with people’s addiction is the tailoring of the content.
All social media uses a basic port for people to come on and find others, but mainly create their own space. And even that was addictive and harmful to mental health. Not to mention proved a great way to manipulate people. But it also gave people a route to alter their interactions with the app—to a degree.
TikTok, on the other hand, tailors everything that happens when you open the app. You don’t get to follow people, change the flavor of content you’re seeing. You open the app, and the algorithm is all that dictates what you’re scrolling through.
I don’t know where I stand on this. I think all social media should die out. It’s killing discourse, it’s creating hate, it’s misinforming people like never before. It’s radicalizing people and generally making everyone stupider and less able to conceive of, let alone discuss nuance. And without nuance, we are truly fucking doomed. It’s far too easy to manipulate people with regular social media, and TikTok has turned all of those problems into an art form. It’s literally like a perfect little brainwashing machine. I’ve seen people use it on the train. They’re like…zombies.
On the other, it’s shocking to me to see a representative claim that having their constituents…call their offices and, yknow, participate in the process is portrayed as being “weaponized against America.”
It’s like a rock and a hard place. Firstly, TikTok is poisoning the minds of people. It’s like social media on steroids, and social media was already having a profoundly negative effect. On the other, it’s always dicey when taking things away from people “for the good of America.” Like…where was this attitude when instagram and Facebook were weaponized against the American people? Like, didn’t they prove it was used to sway elections here and in the UK? Why the uneven hand? Because they like demonizing foreigners and they protect white rich people weaponizing their wealth.
So yeah, maybe it’s the right move, but in context, it’s so blatantly favoritism shown to the evil fuckers causing harm for their own ends.
actually you do get to tailor your experience on tiktok. you can absolutely follow people. you even have the option to have the algorithm that's tailored to your liked content (fyp) or specifically look at a feed of your followed accounts.
You said that tiktok tailors every bit of what happens on the app.
I have some news for you... so does youtube and every other social media platform out there.
people who don't use tiktok seem to not really understand that 95% of the content on it is from youtube or shares creator spaces with youtube and other social media. my fyp and follows are mostly artists, musicians, funny people, animal videos and I even get some news as well.
tiktok is weirdly villanized by those that don't even use the app.
I agree with you that social media is bad, but tiktok isn't really the world ending propaganda machine it's portrayed to be. I don't know if I'd consider funny videos and anime edits to be "poisoning the minds of people".
My problem is with the influence that a hostile foreign state actor has with TikTok.
Google is an independent company; I'm 99% certain their motivation is to make money and I'm confident their algorithms are tailored purely for engagement and profit. Whilst I'm sure they have some back room deals with US intelligence organisations I suspect that it's a case of providing data vs providing influence (though I would not rule it out).
TikTok is controlled by the Chinese government. That's not up for debate; if you have an entity in China it has to work that way. Imagine the damage they could do if they actively decided to increase, for example, messages of reunification with Taiwan in their algorithm by just 1% on a global scale. That frightens me and I'm not convinced it isn't happening already on specific topics of concern to China's foreign policy.
And that's putting aside the amount of data that the Chinese are getting without even exerting any influence. They can likely discern worldwide sentiment on a range of topics and adjust political posture accordingly.
I'm not saying Google is perfect. I hate social media in general for the way it's warping the zeitgeist. But I personally consider TikTok to be a huge threat to the world.
For example — last year they sent what a spy balloon over the USA in what a lot of experts believe was a test of US defence systems - weapons used to shoot down the balloon had never been used before outside of top secret test facilities. And that balloon was covered in high tech sensors and almost certainly broadcasting data in real time. There's no plausible explanation for the incident other than to find out how the US would respond.
Why does China want to know how US defence systems work? A lot of people already think there's a chance of war between the two super powers. That balloon incident didn't help things.
And what went viral on TikTok? Claims that the balloon was a actually flying over Canada and never went near US soil. Claims that it was launched by kids in the USA. Where did those claims originate from? Nobody knows, but it seems pretty coincidental. These claims were spread on other social networks too - but they went viral on TikTok alone.
That's not the only incident, it's just one of the most recent one that involved TikTok. Others have been far more serious especially in busy international waters south of China.
If Twitter's financial backing by Saudi Arabia/Qatar is ever a concern, I'm sure the US will act on that as well.
Twitter is also bad
I personally don't really mind TikTok. But the algorithm is a bit too addictive. The short form 30 second content consumption format is slowly eroding our attention span.
But that's not the cause for a ban here.
𝑝ℎ𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑎𝑑𝑑𝑖𝑐𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛
thrives on
♪ TikTok
that is the most hilarious unorganic protest I think I've seen. I hope they at least got paid well
They literally had preprinted signs to hand out. Fucking epitome of laziness.
Not to be that guy but is there even any vertical video social media that currently provides what TikTok does as an exact competitor?
Youtube shorts is so horrendous I have it blocked via revanced.
This seems more like an excuse to get rid of competition than spyware allegations. It's not like CISA has some big report on TikTok software dump. Everything they do is mirrored by Facebook down to the COPPA violations that congress doesn't seem to care Zuck is abusing.
In what ways is YouTube shorts different from tiktok?
There is a huge lack of quality content compared to tiktok. And it's algorithm is horrendous.
Despite spending months trying to get YouTube to NOT show me far right, conservative, police loving, religious, or bigoted content, I still see it every once in a while. I've reported content, downvoted, selected 'I'm not interested' and nothing works.
There was a video from a lawyer about a black woman telling her child it's ok to take the entire Halloween candy bowl and if legally that's stealing.
Almost every other comment was some form of "well what do you expect from those people" or "it's always the one you expect the most" or just straight up slurs. So many racist 'jokes' and I spent an hour just reporting comments.
Another video of a person driving through protestors blocking the road. Controversial and frustrating, I understand. But almost every comment was "the protestors deserve it" or "I'd drive through them too" and some real sociopathic shit.
And almost all the ads are horrendous. Literally Joe Rogan brain supplements, trashy weight loss, sketchy ai read 'science' on what doctors don't want to to know. I would rather hear about Raid Shadow Legends.
I've found a couple gems in the mix, actual content creators that are funny or interesting. But almost all of them are also on TikTok too so there's no reason to torture myself scrolling through a post apocalyptic wasteland. And there are so many quality creators on TikTok that aren't on YouTube.
I believe a big part of it is (from what I've heard) TikTok has the best creator fund for paying the people who make videos. So without an outright ban, there's no reason for them to switch. Really, this would be an absolutely huge win for YouTube/Google. And as much as I distrust TikTok, it would be a loss for creators and viewers. At least imo
CISA's director literally just testified to congress about China fucking with shit.
Also, I see Instagram reels as a competitor.
How dumb you can be protesting for a chinese spyware which is destroying IQ of children, americans.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Florida Congressman Neal Dunn's office told the BBC it has received more than 900 calls from TikTokers, "many of which were vulnerable school-aged children" and some of whose extreme rhetoric had to be flagged for security reasons.
Lawmakers have long accused ByteDance of having links to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and have cast the video-sharing app as a potential threat to Americans' privacy and mental health.
Carlos Gimenez, who sits alongside Mr Dunn on the House committee behind the bill, said he would not be deterred from voting for it "regardless of TikTok's targeted campaign against members of Congress".
A spokesperson for New York Democrat Ritchie Torres - a joint leader of the legislation - confirmed that his office too has received "seemingly endless calls" though none were of a threatening nature.
"I am deeply troubled by reports of young people calling Congress, threatening to commit suicide or otherwise harm themselves," Mr Torres said in a statement to the BBC.
Mr Johnson, a South Dakota Republican, has been outspoken about the national security threat posed by TikTok and is supportive of the proposed bill, "so it's certainly possible that our office is targeted because of those things", his spokesperson added.
The original article contains 712 words, the summary contains 201 words. Saved 72%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
I stay largely uninvolved with social media apps outside of this fediverse project, but why is it that bytedance must divest TikTok while meta is free to keep Facebook and Instagram? Aren’t the risks to mental health and security the same?
Meta isn't heavily influenced by a government adversarial to that of the US, so the risks to US security are not the same.
The mental health risk looks pretty similar, though.
I remember two decades ago when the US was screaming about the "great firewall of China" and how they should open up their internet to companies like Google. What made the US change their mind since then?
Can anyone get me up to speed what claims the bill gave to justify TikTok must be either sold or remove from app stores?
AFAIU - but that is a veeeeeery "skimmed" take on the issue, so please check what I wrote before taking it at face value:
There were legitimate concerns about tiktok (hugely popular platform distributed as a "black box", with very concerning permissions and behaviours, and owned by a foreign actor - tiktok is "unavailable" domestically - that demonstrably uses technology in an extremely dystopian way on their own population), so there was quite a lot of public pressure to "do something about it", and of course politicians jumped on the opportunity to make a (very) broadly fitting legislation targeting it, coincidentally also having utterly damaging and immensely concerning side-effects for the end users privacy and sovereignty of all applications.
Following that, some of the people got (rightly) concerned about the legislation's effect on their rights and privacy, but the vast majority just saw that their digital crack cocaine was being attacked, and started whining with arguments of varying relevance. At the end of the day, though, a given platform is irrelevant. What is, is the abilities given to the users, and the possibilities that those create. But now, we have a deeply concerning platform, still being immensely popular and uncontrolled; a totally unfitting legislation with incredibly wild "side effects"; and a growing, misguided popular movement to "save tiktok" that will only make a legitimate attempt at mitigating it much harder. Yay.
Edit: after quite some digging, I found the bill here (PDF) - source.
Edit 2: to answer your question more directly:
Can anyone get me up to speed what claims the bill gave to justify TikTok must be either sold or remove from app stores?
The justification is "America’s foremost adversary has no business controlling a dominant media platform in the United States".
Which is IMHO fair. It isn't like the CCP would let American corporations, let alone government controlled ones, run services in China, let alone psychiatrically alienate their citizens, instigate discord and radicalization, potentially manipulate the public opinion, have the capacity to covertly do psyops, and actively, aggressively collect any and all data.
The potential problem I see (and probably what concerns most of the privacy advocates out there) however, is that while the bill is aiming at tiktok in particular (fine), it also targets any "foreign adversary". Meaning that, AFAIU (but IANAL), all the US would have to do to completely and entirely nuke an app (or an entire federated platform!) in the US would be to declare any foreign entity (country, state, corporation, person, etc) their "adversary". Effectively giving them a single "button" to directly nuke any app and services they don't see fit. No matter how legitimate.
This shit is annoying, I like Tiktok
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
