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[-] oxjox@lemmy.ml 46 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

“He is the father of Marine Lance Corporal Kareem Nikoui, who was KIA due to Joe Biden’s disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan,” Mast said online. “Joe Biden may try to turn the page on Afghanistan after his incompetence cost American lives, but NOT ON MY WATCH.”

Last August, on the two-year anniversary of the explosion, Biden released a statement to mourn the lives of the service members and civilians who were killed in the “horrific terrorist attack.”

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/08/26/statement-from-president-joe-biden-honoring-sacrifices-of-the-service-members-killed-in-the-terrorist-attack-during-the-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/

We will forever honor the memory of the 13 service members who were stolen far too soon from their families, loved ones, and brothers- and sisters-in-arms, while performing a noble mission on behalf of our nation. We can never repay the incredible sacrifice of any of the 2,461 U.S. service members who lost their lives over two decades of war in Afghanistan or the 20,744 who were wounded. But we will never fail to honor our sacred obligation to our service members and veterans, as well as their families, caregivers, and survivors.

Today, Jill and I remember and mourn these 13 brave American service members and the more than 100 innocent Afghan civilians who were killed in the horrific terrorist attack at Abbey Gate. Many more were injured and will carry the impacts of their wounds and the horrors of that day for the rest of their lives.

We pray for the families of our fallen warriors. We grieve with them, we honor them, and we will always continue to support them.

The ignorance and stupidity in this country will most certainly be our demise.

[-] spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works 47 points 8 months ago

These are the same people who want to know why Obama wasn't in the Oval Office on 9/11.

[-] NovaPrime@lemmy.ml 33 points 8 months ago

Meh, fuck him. His son signed up to go murder people in their own country for a paycheck and it bit him in the ass. Waaah.

[-] fiat_lux@kbin.social 13 points 8 months ago

Blaming the people who need to eat instead of the people creating an economy out of death and misery is counter-productive. US foreign policy and economics have centered around war for at least 80 years, Biden has played a crucial role in facilitating it for a few decades.

And the fact a person has been arrested for shouting at the president in the same location where people literally stormed it and engaged in literal violence and walked away free that day? Amazing.

Biden might be infinitely better than the alternative for most citizens of the US (and likely the entire world) - but the non-US part of the world has been bearing the costs of the US military economy that has provided the privileges US citizens currently enjoy.

But fuck the guy who lost his kid, right? He's the real problem. /s

[-] NovaPrime@lemmy.ml 9 points 8 months ago

First, I'm not blaming anyone. Just pointing out that what happened was a logical and known potential outcome and consequence of signing up to go overseas to murder others in their country so his bosses could further perpetuate US hegemony across the globe.

Secondly, there are many other ways to "eat." You make it sound as if the choice is binary between starving and joining the military: it's not.

Thirdly, the US has been at war for all of its existence in one form or another. The only thing that makes the last 80 years different is the efficiency of murder and the new murder weapons they have access to.

Lastly, yeah, fuck this guy. He's putting blame on someone who is neither the proximal nor actual cause of his sons death, and he's choosing to do it in a forum/in a way that does nothing but create a media spectacle.

[-] fiat_lux@kbin.social 5 points 8 months ago

what happened was a logical and known potential outcome and consequence of signing up

It certainly is, but when the burden of responsibility is only placed on the person at the end of the line, it lets the fuckers at the top with the unequal power skirt their responsibility. Perhaps "blame" is too far, but it doss seem like you've perhaps disproportionately assigned blame to thus one shouting guy and his kid.

You make it sound as if the choice is binary between starving and joining the military: it’s not.

Not at all, but I do acknowledge that for many, and in increasing amounts, the decision has indeed become very close to that binary. US hegemony relies on people to do the enforcement. That's obviously dangerous, and thankfully, despite pervasive cultural conditioning, most people aren't interested in killing others overseas while living in an overcrowded dorm eating slop. So the conditions have been put in place by the ruling class to force people into doing it.

If you're unlucky enough to be born in Podunk Nowhere, where disaster capitalism has resulted in the only employers being Walmart, mcdonalds or the shady abattoir that "hires" minors, you don't start with many options. Add in an "education" from a system that has been rotted from within by zealots, complete with in-school army recruiter. Add in a culture that loves guns. Add in a family member in debt from medical accident (probably at the abattoir), or an unplanned pregnancy because of no access to abortion. Maybe they're also living at home with a parent who is addicted to meth out of desperation to avoid their poverty and misery... and the military starts looking like a very tempting option.

You have the chance of dying and disability in the military, and the likelihood that you're forced to murder, but also the glimmer of hope of an education, family healthcare and a way out of Podunk's cycle of poverty. That's a powerful motivator for someone who doesn't see any other realistic options. It's a deliberate funnel into committing murder through economic coercion and military worship culture, and the fault lies with the trap makers, not the trapped.

The only thing that makes the last 80 years different is the efficiency of murder and the new murder weapons they have access to.

And the extent of its reach. A century ago, the US was pretty limited to war on North American soil, and land it claims. When the war is that close, the realities of suffering are hard to conceal from the people whom you need to inflict it. Wars in other continents though can be sanitized by the media, and the people who are caught in the military funnel trap find out after they've signed the contract.

Thankfully the prevalence of video tech has allowed us to mitigate some of that media sanitization, but again, putting the burden of responsibility on the 18 year old who has never been taught critical thinking skills allows the 65+ year old networked decision makers at the top to slide off the hook.

Tl;dr I think it's OK to acknowledge everything on all fronts is fucked for everyone except the ruling class. I also think it's OK to shout at the ruling class, even in their house, when you were invited to be there.

[-] NovaPrime@lemmy.ml 3 points 8 months ago

All fair points. Thank you for taking the time to elaborate. That was well presented.

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[-] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Step 1) Act immorally

Step 2a) Nothing goes wrong - No problem! Step 2b) Something goes wrong - Continue to step 3

Step 3) Complain

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Yeah, it's a little weird seeing an ML-ish space "defending the troops against those bastard Washington elites".

[-] MarcoPOLO@sh.itjust.works 21 points 8 months ago

Freedom of speech and the right to protest are when you get arrested for shouting at the person responsible for the death of your son.

[-] athos77@kbin.social 39 points 8 months ago

Did you even read the article you posted?

“Our officers warned him to stop and when he did not, the man was removed from the House Galleries,” USCP said in a statement. He was arrested for crowding, obstructing or incommoding, said USCP, which added that “disrupting the Congress and demonstrating in the Congressional Buildings is illegal.”

[-] MarcoPOLO@sh.itjust.works 16 points 8 months ago

Protesting your primary legislative body? Illegal.

[-] Dkarma@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago

Correct. During an official session.

[-] oxjox@lemmy.ml 21 points 8 months ago

D.C. Code § 22–1307 - Crowding, Obstructing, or Incommoding. Disrupting the Congress and demonstrating in the Congressional Buildings is illegal.”

https://floridianpress.com/2024/03/gold-star-father-arrested-at-bidens-sotu-address/

[-] MarcoPOLO@sh.itjust.works 8 points 8 months ago

Protesting your primary legislative body? Illegal.

[-] horsey@lemm.ee 29 points 8 months ago

You can protest all you want outside. Someone would get kicked out of a school board meeting for this. Free speech means the government can't arrest you for the content of what you say or restrict political assembly.

[-] MarcoPOLO@sh.itjust.works 8 points 8 months ago

Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the freedom [...] to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[-] oxjox@lemmy.ml 21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It is legal to peaceably petition the government for a redress of grievances.
It is illegal to disrupt the Congress and demonstrate in the Congressional buildings.

[-] MeetInPotatoes@lemmy.ml 18 points 8 months ago

Yet another moronic comment from you. Having the right to petition the government does not mean you can disrupt official proceedings and refuse to leave when ordered to by the police. It's the content of speech that's protected, you can't go to jail for saying Biden sucks...you can go to jail for disrupting official proceedings and trespassing. You're pretending the right to free speech gives one the right to conduct that speech however they want, and that is again...an incredibly stupid thing to suggest.

[-] oxjox@lemmy.ml 8 points 8 months ago

How bizarre is it that people simply choose to misinterpret plain English?

One law says you can peacefully petition, the other says you can not be disruptive and obstructive.

This should not be something anyone finds arguable.

[-] horsey@lemm.ee 8 points 8 months ago

Good job, but our rights don’t include standing up and screaming during official proceedings. It’s more that the government can’t arrest him for writing an op-ed or Twitter feed criticizing Biden.

[-] MarcoPOLO@sh.itjust.works 5 points 8 months ago

I don't think you understand what the first amendment actually claims

[-] yngmnwntr@lemmy.ml 19 points 8 months ago

I dont think you do lol

[-] horsey@lemm.ee 5 points 8 months ago

It does not guarantee the right to disrupt official proceedings, sorry. Like I said, go try that in a court. Walk in and start protesting about a political issue and claim you're allowed to under the 1st amendment. This isn't exactly the first time someone has tried that btw.

[-] horsey@lemm.ee 20 points 8 months ago

Try going in a courthouse and yelling at someone during a hearing.

Hell, try going in a Post Office and yelling at someone.

[-] MarcoPOLO@sh.itjust.works 7 points 8 months ago

The Post Office is not a political body

[-] horsey@lemm.ee 16 points 8 months ago

I used that example because they are also federal property as opposed to private property. It seems you missed the point, though. Free speech doesn’t mean you can create a public disturbance.

[-] MeetInPotatoes@lemmy.ml 19 points 8 months ago

Bingo, OP is just a troll.

[-] horsey@lemm.ee 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The entire story and event are Republican media stunts. Yes, the guy lost his son and is upset. But blaming Biden for it (like OP did - "his fault") is about like what they did with Clinton and Benghazi. Strangely it comes up often on Lemmy, "I'm so leftist that I repeat and amplify exactly what Republicans say!"

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 15 points 8 months ago

Nah, his son was responsible for his own death. I won't say he deserved to die but I will say I dgaf about dead marines.

[-] halferect@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

Biden is responsible for a lot of things but this is not one of them.

[-] horsey@lemm.ee 15 points 8 months ago

People with a 'but free speech!!' angle, let me know what country you think it would be okay to yell at the President or Prime Minister during a speech and then refuse to leave.

[-] MarcoPOLO@sh.itjust.works 17 points 8 months ago

In the democratic West, if you interrupt your leader you are locked up and imprisoned.

[-] MeetInPotatoes@lemmy.ml 24 points 8 months ago

Lol, what a ridiculous take. He'd have been locked up if he did that in a movie theater, let alone at the State of the Union address.

[-] horsey@lemm.ee 3 points 8 months ago

The charge he's getting is so light that it would probably be worse to get a municipal misdemeanor for disorderly conduct.

[-] MeetInPotatoes@lemmy.ml 3 points 8 months ago

I'm glad he's getting a slap on the wrist, losing a child will mess any parent up....and they were still right to throw him out.

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[-] horsey@lemm.ee 9 points 8 months ago

Ha ha, yeah. This guy is getting a $50 fine.

[-] regul@lemm.ee 12 points 8 months ago

This is exactly how Prime Minster's Questions work in the UK.

I expect that Americans know nothing about other countries, but I thought maybe you'd know something about at least the UK.

[-] sanguinepar@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

Members of the public aren't allowed to shout during PMQs though, just elected members.

[-] regul@lemm.ee 4 points 8 months ago

that's not what OP alleged

[-] horsey@lemm.ee 3 points 8 months ago

Congress members have made interjections during State of the Union without being censured or removed. But also, that's the Questions segment. That's what they're SUPPOSED to do. I have seen that, thanks.

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[-] squirrelwithnut@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

oh no! Not shouting?! Lock up that undemocratic lunatic. We don't allow public criticism of our government officials.

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this post was submitted on 08 Mar 2024
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