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submitted 7 months ago by cheesorist@lemmy.world to c/games@lemmy.world

2 employees went to twitter to harass a steam group admin for listing the games Sweet Baby Inc. wrote for/were consulted with.

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[-] hydroxide@lemmy.ml 84 points 7 months ago
  • group offers diversity inclusion consulting, whatever that means

  • steam user curates list to tell people to avoid games solely because a diversity consulting group was onboard.

  • I go to curated list and click on games to check on reviews

  • People review bomb random games with shred of involvement with said company, including smaller devs

  • Many reviews say the game is too 'woke'. These people's profiles are inflammatory or bigoted

i fucking hate gaming magazines

[-] Carighan@lemmy.world 42 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

group offers diversity inclusion consulting, whatever that means

It usually means ensuring a lot of small details. For example if you have a native american character, they'd make sure you do not randomly pick a culture that doesn't fit what the character does or their background, that you don't show some non-native stereotypes, that you don't idolize them like in stories unless your specific story calls for that, etc etc.

You're supposed to work with consulting companies like these when you don't have people who can judge this on your own team, because it's so easy to get so many details wrong. Of course it'd be easier if your team already knows how to do it, sure. But if you can't, then it's the right step to get someone external who can help you not make a joke out of a character. Again, unless they're suppsoed to be a joke.

[-] Lath@kbin.social 2 points 7 months ago

This reminds me of Star Trek Voyager's Chakotay(?) and total fraud that "helped" with the native background.

[-] hydroxide@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago

thank you for clarifying

[-] rutellthesinful@kbin.social 1 points 7 months ago

i fucking hate gaming magazines

kbin sweating nervously

[-] Carighan@lemmy.world 54 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

This reads so weird.

The company is... just a consultation company? The kind of one you're supposed to hire when working on a script including minorities et al to ensure you're not accidentally getting something wrong or presenting it in a stereotypical or atypical way?

And for some reason they're angry about someone listing games they've worked on, as if any kind of exposure would ever be bad for a consultation company that, by its very nature, usually works in the background and hence finds it a bit difficult to get exposure?

And at the same time, someone makes a Steam curator list because they're somehow pissed some devs are doing something devs ought to do, hire a company specialized in character writing instead of letting someone less experienced do it?

Do people really, in 2024, not have any bigger issues so they 're busty with this shit?!

(edit)
Ah, it's a very biased "article" that clearly just wants to riff on the consulting company further as if they're responsible for games being bad, not the devs actually making the games. I also frequently blame the visual marketing ad designer for the graphics driver crashes, aye.

[-] SomeGuy69@lemmy.world 20 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Because Sweet Baby Inc is known for forcing a narrative and tokens into the writing, for the sake of diversity on the cost of quality of the story and the characters. A lot of people don't like that.

Now the issue is much bigger than that and I don't like to involve myself with it much, as the controversy attracts a lot of truly bigot people, who also want to stop SBI. So one automatically gets shoved into that corner. And this is exactly what SBI is abusing to their advantage. No one can stop them from destroying good games in fear of getting burned on the stack.

[-] Carighan@lemmy.world 36 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I struggle to think of an otherwise good game they have "destroyed" by "forcing" a narrative or token characters.

That is to say, I don't think I can point to a case where the game would have been otherwise good. Adding badly written characters to bad games does make them if anything marginally better (at least they're consistent 😅), plus unless the devs completely lost control of their own project the consultation company would not actually implement the characters. They'd give you background stories, profiles, example interaction scenes where they took scenes and re-did them with their characters, or example lists of character archetypes to utilize this profile in.

The actual (bad) writing, (bad) characters and (bad) narrative are still up to the devs to (badly) add.

(edit)
I mean just going by their official project list, I can only personally mark out Suicide Squad, BattleShapers and Sable as bad, and none of these games needed their inclusionism - such as it is, you could argue Suicide Squad makes a mockery of it anyways - to be terrible games, they were plenty able of being that on their own. Plus again, it's the devs doing that, not the consulting company.

[-] cottonmon@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago

One of the examples I've seen of SBI "forcing inclusivity" was making Saga in Alan Wake 2 black. I'm not familiar enough with SBI's work to do make a real judgement, but if this is one of the examples being used to say that SBI is making games worse, then the curator list is dumb.

[-] flumph@programming.dev 10 points 7 months ago

Because Sweet Baby Inc is known for forcing a narrative and tokens into the writing, for the sake of diversity on the cost of quality of the story and the characters.

Where is the proof of this beyond speculation? I can't think of a mechanism through which a consultant can force anything. Their contracts would undoubtedly have an NDA that would prevent them from sharing which of their recommendations the client acted on or not.

[-] myliltoehurts@lemm.ee 39 points 7 months ago

So sweet baby Inc (who I never knew of until now) felt attacked by a list on steam which collected titles they worked on (it didn't say avoid apparently, just a list of titles they worked on with proof from their own media).

Kind of telling of the company that they saw this as an offense to them rather than as a tribute. If they thought their work was good they'd advertise this list themselves.

Also, way to dig a grave.

[-] Maven@lemmy.sdf.org 46 points 7 months ago

it didn’t say avoid apparently

It originally did, but once someone ran an article on it, people adviced the admin that his current reviews might afoul of steam policies, so they went back and revised all the reviews be neutral statements that SBI was involved, linking a source for each.

However, all the ratings on this curator are negative non-recommends, with SBI involvement as the stated reason. So it's hard to paint it as just a neutral list.

That said, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. If you want to avoid a company's games, that should be allowed.

[-] Deestan@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago

it didn’t say avoid apparently

It originally did

It still remains in the curator's logo.

[-] Maven@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 7 months ago

Does it? The only logo I see is the SBI logo combined with a Metal Gear Solid !

[-] Deestan@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

Ah, they've changed it. Yes, I see same as you.

This was also reported on during the weekend, and when I looked into it then they had the Sweet Baby Inc logo with a big "forbidden" slashed red circle over it.

[-] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 37 points 7 months ago

Collecting lists related to a disenfranchised group or the aid of a disenfranchised group is a pretty big red flag of the actor's intentions, especially when that list gets passed around to corners of the internet that are well known to think the problem is not enough disenfranchisement.

4chan lost the right to complain about anything related to D&I in gaming and be treated as anything but subhuman slime after Gamergate.

[-] QuaternionsRock@lemmy.world 28 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

This article:

… began Kramer, whose work history also includes stints as a PR manager for GamerGate instigator Zoe Quinn

Wikipedia:

In 2014, a defamatory blog post by their ex-boyfriend sparked the online harassment campaign known as Gamergate, during which Quinn was subjected to extensive harassment including doxing, rape threats, and death threats. The following year, Quinn co-founded Crash Override, a crisis hotline and resource center for victims of online harassment.

What’s it called when you blame a victim again?

This article is garbage, and anyone who gives a fuck about this is a simply a moron wasting their life. You’d have to be implausibly stupid to believe that a 15-employee “PC” consulting firm is the root of all evil in the video games industry, yet here they are.

[-] Carighan@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago

The "article" is very clearly just a call to forther hate on SGI. It's crazy to what lengths people go to justify their bad purchases, desperately clinging to whatever explanation they can cook up for why there is no self-blame to apply for having bought into the shit that is Suicide Squad. No no, you see, the game would have been awesome if not for that WOKE consulting company! If not for them this would have been a 10/10, I could not have known it'd be bad!

[-] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 7 months ago

The thing I find most interesting about the Zoe Post is that the response would have been **radically **different had it been a woman making similar allegations against a man. That Quinn herself made much less detailed allegations against another man 5 years later that led to his career imploding the next day and his suicide 4 days later and she's seen as being in the right for it I think demonstrates that notion pretty well.

[-] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 7 months ago

Collecting lists related to a disenfranchised group

Didn't know a consulting company was a disenfranchised group.

4chan lost the right to complain about anything related to D&I in gaming and be treated as anything but subhuman slime after Gamergate.

Amusingly, one of the people Quinn cheated on Gjoni with works for Sweet Baby, just to tie things together. The one that was involved in doxxing and trying to DDoS that crowdfunded game jam project thing that the Vivian James character was created for.

[-] Carighan@lemmy.world 28 points 7 months ago

If you read the list itself and the discussions about it, it's clearly a call for harassment (the list, that is), not just a simple listing.

[-] takeda@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago

Well it was essentially a boycott. If people will stop buying games made by them, then publishers will stop hiring them and the company will go bankrupt. So I can understand the motivation for it.

Now, I think the whole scandal is really manufactured. The company goal is basically to provide contractor writers to help with game development. They try to differentiate themselves by claiming that they write content that is inclusive, which can help make games for a wider populace.

The hate though is misdirected. People are claiming that the games are bad, because the company made them bad, when in reality if publisher prefers to hire contractor writers rather than hire their own, they likely don't care about quality and just want to milk the franchise.

I actually had no idea bout this scandal until yesterday, when it was talked by a streamer while playing Cyberpunk 2077. The guy complained how other games are ruined by SweetBaby. What is golden for me is that he said he loves Cyberpunk 2077, that it's very fun game, but in the game you have straight, gay, bi, trans NPC characters. You can even be gay, bi, trans yourself.

The game has loser men, and powerful women (I mean the NUSA president is a women) similarly, you have black characters that are very powerful and honorable, you have a powerful Asian woman in DLC that has skills that you can't surpass. I mean the game is the wokest of woke, yet still "it is fun" for him.

To me it was perfect example that it is all bullshit, and really what makes game great is the effort put in not whether it is woke/anti-woke.

[-] Carighan@lemmy.world 28 points 7 months ago

what makes game great is the effort put in not whether it is woke/anti-woke

More importantly, the moment someone uses the word "woke" in such a context you already know that:

  • They don't actually know what they're talking about.
  • They are the problem, not the games they're complaining about.
[-] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 7 months ago

I actually had no idea bout this scandal until yesterday, when it was talked by a streamer while playing Cyberpunk 2077. The guy complained how other games are ruined by SweetBaby. What is golden for me is that he said he loves Cyberpunk 2077, that it’s very fun game, but in the game you have straight, gay, bi, trans NPC characters. You can even be gay, bi, trans yourself.

Notably, Cyberpunk 2077 is not to my knowledge a game Sweet Baby was involved with. So clearly it's not simply anger at non-straight characters existing in games.

I know more people who are angry that a character in a repeated murder mystery visual novel game isn't actually trans like they want him to be than I know people who are angry that characters in games are occasionally trans. Or people upset about Kaine from Nier Gestalt/Replicant in general.

[-] altima_neo@lemmy.zip 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Well... 4chan is using it as a list of games to avoid. Cant blame them, they've all been stinkers.

I want to add that I'm not against inclusivity. But I am against crappy games.

[-] nac82@lemm.ee 10 points 7 months ago

Lmao, taking pointers from 4chan

[-] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 7 months ago

Eh, I imagine /v/ probably has at least not completely insane opinions about video games.

[-] altima_neo@lemmy.zip 1 points 7 months ago

Not saying I agree with them

[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

God of War Ragnarok and Spiderman 2 are stinkers? This article is entirely whiny gamergate nonsense.

[-] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Those 2 games aren't on the list... They're not sold on steam. The context of the above message is surely based on the steam curator list. I'm not sure any of the 16 games on this list are worthwhile at all. The only one I've heard of was Suicide Squad kill the justice league... and I think we call all agree that game is definitely on the "stinker" list.

Edit: Oh and Gotham Knights, I think I saw that at some point too... That definitely didn't get anything near "good" reviews.

And to pre-empt it... I didn't actually know at all about AC:valhalla, seems it got okay reviews... But just never landed on my radar.

[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

Fair enough, although these games will presumably end up on the list once they are launched on steam. I still stand behind my view that this article and the list itself are complete nonsense

[-] rutellthesinful@kbin.social 2 points 7 months ago

At least try and form your own opinions, maybe?

Of the 16 games on the list, 6 of them haven't even released yet, and the average Steam user rating of those remaining is 78%.

Only two are below "Mostly Positive", which are Gotham Knights and Dungeons and Dragons: Dark Alliance, both being "Mixed".

[-] Aatube@kbin.social 3 points 7 months ago

To be more concrete, we have to see if nearly all of the released games on the list have been subject to "abnormal review activity", which steam automatically excludes from the percentage

[-] bane_killgrind@kbin.social 2 points 7 months ago

provided sensitivity reading for Alan Wake 2 and Goodbye Volcano High, narrative and character consultation “with a focus on representation” for God of War: Ragnarok, story consultation for Marvel’s Spider-Man 2, and script-writing duties (including cutscenes and banter) for Suicide Squad: Kill The Justice League.

Stinkers? All of these are pretty popular titles...

[-] ampersandrew@kbin.social 1 points 7 months ago

Well, not Suicide Squad, but they've got plenty of bangers on their resume.

[-] rutellthesinful@kbin.social 4 points 7 months ago

it didn’t say avoid

It quite literally says "Not Recommended" for each of them.

I'm not sure how you interpret that as anything other than "avoid".

[-] Phanatik@kbin.social 2 points 7 months ago

The aspect that's getting lost in all this is that the curator has basically put up a hit list of games for people to review bomb just for associating with a company. The curator has no evidence on the level of involvement SBI had with the game but they don't recommend the game based on them being involved at all.

They have taken something small and weaponised it so now it's harming game devs. No one has any evidence on how SBI were involved with any of the games they've listed on their website beyond vague mentions of "narrative" or "character development".

The worst part is, I'm not even surprised by this.

[-] ampersandrew@kbin.social 2 points 7 months ago

It has a "do not recommend" next to each game on the list, and it's used for people to review bomb games and cry about this company on the Steam forums.

[-] echo64@lemmy.world 37 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Fwiw, this is bigots harassing developers and then posting articles like this, avoiding all the details about their bigotry

[-] Lileath 22 points 7 months ago

Sometimes I wish that I could downvote content from my instance.

[-] kryllic@programming.dev 11 points 7 months ago

I gotchu fam, no worries 👍🏻

[-] IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social 2 points 7 months ago

That website reeks of incel cancer.

[-] Dremor@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

Hi fellow Gamers Lemmings.

This thread was bought to our attention as possibly breaking rule 2 (No Bigotry/Harassement).

First, some context. The article comme from a right leaning website, with mixed factuality and medium credibility.
This means the content of this article shouldn't be taken as is and should be complemented from other, more neutral/factual websites.

For now I didn't find this story on any verifiable sources with such requirement.

On the other hand, the comments seem to be a lot more neutral than the OP link, and raise some interesting points. As such, I'll keep this thread, but will keep it under close watch to keep the conversation civil.

Thank you for your understanding.

Dremor, c/games mod.

[-] Lath@kbin.social 1 points 7 months ago

Yeah, the list is hit or miss. Some of the games are genuinely good and the recent baby diaper toss just seems childish, while some games are just plain bad regardless.

[-] AlwaysNowNeverNotMe@kbin.social 1 points 7 months ago

It's a shame they stopped at harassing them.

this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2024
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