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I may be a creaking ancient, but is the policy not “get in trouble if your phone is seen in class, or even taken away”?
It used to be, but nowadays it seems that students don't really give a shit. They'll downright just refuse to do what a teacher/other figure of authority will ask/tell them to do.
Yeah, so problem isn't phones. Problem is that teachers don't have enough authority. If teachers cannot take away the phone, then just toss them out.
I feel like this "ban phones" is getting common but it does not fix the actual problem of teachers not being able to keep discipline in class.
Can't they just be asked to leave class if they refuse to cooperate or have some other kind of sanction imposed such as a complaint to the parents or a deduction in the grade?
The problem is parents arguing that they want their kids to have them at all times. Then they call and text their kids all day during school. I even had a football coach call one of my students during class.
The culture of instant communication at all times is really killing our kids' education. Parents just need to back the fuck off.
I hate to even say this but now in America you can go straight for the top shelf drama and say your kid needs a phone in case of a school shooting.
If you do that as a teacher, not only will you be getting pushback from that student and others, but also said student’s parents.
When I was a kid, you respected teachers and if you didn’t, you got punished at school AND at home. These days parents are rude assholes too, and god forbid you try and correct their precious snowflake’s shitty behaviour.
And bans only really work if the school management has your back and make it a schoolwide ban. Otherwise it’s simply not worth the fight.
"When you were a kid..." No they fucking did not. Some kids have always been little shits and some "parents" only qualifications were functional gonads. It's always been that way and always will.
Your memory is fading so you don't remember.
https://news.ucsb.edu/2019/019669/kids-these-days
Just like many other distractions before them, phones take kids attention away from school activities. Kids have always looked to avoid classwork. Pre-cell phones, teachers were collecting comic books, different popular toys, friendship bracelets etc... it's just the lastest issue on constant battle: Teachers try to get kids to learn, kids do everything they can to avoid it.
Most schools around here have implemented a no phone policy during class. If the phone is out, it's sent to the office for them to collect at the end of the day.
Because of this policy, in my kids middle school some very talented kids are creatively bypassing school controls on their Chromebooks to play games. It's an ongoing battle between a loosely organized group of 50 kids and the schools IT department. By my count the IT has squashed 9 different versions each more sophisticated than the last. The kids are hands down winning right now with a truly elegant and devious solution.
If you don't remember the fact that kids were more respectful 25 years ago or so, you're probably less than 25 years old. The shit teachers deal with today simply did not happen back then.
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What good does that do when the parents go pick it up that day and give it to the kid? It’s the parents not following through with the punishment and cutting the authority of the school off at the knees.
It used to be, but then the parents get involved and have a hissy fit. They say f it, I don't get paid enough for this extra stress.
This is a result of the US teaching for arbitrary ass tests, pushing bullshit curriculums, and using 40 hour school weeks + homework as a prepping ground for their shitty 9-5 future job, while underpaying + under supporting teachers. This isn't a "moody kids with phone" problem. Are phones an issue in classrooms everywhere? Yes. Could kids use less screentime? Yes. Is the US schooling system a well studied topic of how not to construct teaching curriculums for children? Also yes.
Yours is the first comment I see that thinks further than "phones bad, mkay". Thanks for that. I am a teacher myself, and I don't see the phones themselves being the problem, but the fact that the curriculum is totally outdated and irrelevant to this generation and the students know this. I have personally fought to get some 'technology weeks' (where I teach 3D modelling, animation and programming) and the phones stay in the students pockets for the entirety of those classes (without me telling them to!), because the subject is relevant, interesting and actually requires for them to think creatively instead of just memorising facts.
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On the other hand, this is how we know about teachers doing things they absolutely shouldn't do.
I read books in class. I drew pictures in class. I just looked out the window and daydreamed. Kids aren't going to pay attention just because you take away their phones.
EDIT: I'm honestly amazed people are against that. Are you not aware that this is why we have videos like this that expose racist teachers?
https://abc7.com/fontana-sequoia-middle-school-teacher-racial-slur/13092208/
I'm bored and could use the downvotes, so here are a bunch more examples of students filming teachers doing things that are unacceptable or just plain illegal in class because they have their phones:
https://www.wdbo.com/news/news/local/student-films-teacher-whipping-students-belt/nmJzW/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/student-teacher-qanon-video-shouting-b1951071.html
https://www.yourtango.com/news/video-math-teacher-mimicking-native-american-culture
https://www.yourtango.com/news/california-teacher-robert-bean-threatening-slam-student-against-wall
Wow, that math one! They did the same thing in my kid's math class! It was during Covid, so the teacher recorded it himself without a second thought! I couldn't believe what I was seeing!
I hear what you're saying about recording. But Im not sure phones in class are the answer.
I don't know what other answer there is to stop teachers getting away with this shit. The racism and sexual harassment I saw on display when I was going to school in Indiana in the 80s and 90s was not a secret. But since it was always the teacher's word against the kid's, the teacher always got away with it. The only time I can think of that it didn't happen was when a very devoted girl and her family in my high school spent a lot of time and money in court suing a teacher who sexually harassed her in middle school. He had his job the whole time (he was finally fired when he lost the case).
Security cameras in classes? They have them on busses.
Exactly. If a student doesn't want to pay attention, it won't.
I think the exposing teachers part is even more important. I edited my post to show a link to a student who filmed a teacher being racist above.
Here's another link to another incident to show that isn't a one-off
https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article275311416.html
I got all kinds of mistreatment by teachers in school and saw even worse stuff happen to other kids. Racism, sexual harassment, violent threats, etc. But we didn't have phones with cameras in them back in the early 90s, so they got away with it. They can't anymore... unless they ban phones, of course.
EDIT: I don't suppose one of the many downvoters would take the time to explain why giving children the ability to expose teachers like this should be taken away from them in the name of getting kids to pay attention.
EDIT: I don’t suppose one of the many downvoters would take the time to explain why giving children the ability to expose teachers like this should be taken away from them in the name of getting kids to pay attention.
To give you a genuine response, it is at least conceivable that the potential harm caused by allowing students with adolescent brains constant access to platforms that are explicitly and intentionally designed to be as addictive and distracting as possible is greater than the positive impact of outing the occasional bigoted teacher.
I'm not saying this is definitively the case because I'm neither a sociologist nor a psychologist, but I think it's fair to say that we can objectively state that this is at least possible.
If it is because people think it's occasional, I hope they've changed their minds now that I've posted 7 links. 5 of them I found within a few minutes of searching (all five in total, not each). The other two I found instantly.
Because I disagree entirely that this potential harm is worse than the actual harm on these videos.
I don't think throwing any amount of links at each other is a particularly productive way of answering the question. I can just as easily find an equal number of reports from teachers saying how keeping kids off their phones is nearly impossible and makes it much harder to actually teach. Plenty of teachers would strongly disagree that social media is merely a 'potential' harm.
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When the school shootings 100% stop and the bullying dealt with sure I'm willing to revisit this but not a chance in hell am I sending my kid to school without a way to reach me.
I like the idea of the cell phone cubby. It's there if an emergency arises, but out of reach otherwise. It's a good solid middle ground.
And who is watching those cubbies? Better be locked that’s a lot of money just sitting around. Will you have time to unlock in an emergency though?
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I don't have kids, and when I was in school no one had phones, so I'm way out of the loop, but there were various electronic devices that could be a distraction. Portable music players, handheld games, even a graphing calculator in a non-math or science class, any one of these would have been confiscated if used during class.
I can not think of a single reason a student should have access to a phone during class that can't be solved another way.
We used to sneak Tiger electronic handheld games into class. Just put it in your lap and pretend you were reading the textbook.
I mean yeah, we got caught sometimes. But not often enough to stop doing it.
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There are a lot of things to consider here. The world has changed.
Kids have legitimate reasons for having a cell phone today. It makes it infinitely easier to coordinate pickups, care of siblings, emergencies, job scheduling, etc. it shouldn't be used during class, but ae a parent i have enough legit reasons i want my daughter to have her phone on her and as long as its not being used during class, then the school can fuck right off. Ill decide whats best for my child. If she uses it during class, give her detention or whatever. Or tell me and ill handle itat home.
Beyond that, i dont want a teacher confiscating a device that costs several hundred dollars. That would lead to teachers or admins mysteriously "losing" the phone, only for it to show up on eBay.
There have also heen numerous high profile incidents of the bad behavior of teachers, students, and security personnel. I kinda like the idea of kids being able to not only defend themselves but also provide evidence to authorities that would probably have not believed them otherwise.
Today, phones are a ubiquitous paret of everyone's lives. Schools are better off trying to figure out how to integrate the technology into their lessons instead of a futile war against them.
While I agree students shouldn't be distracted with their phones during class I don't think enacting a law is the best remedy for the malady. This aught to be resolved by school district or even just a classroom policy.
The issue with local policy like that is that school boards or individual teachers are hugely susceptible to parental rage. Countless teachers will talk about how every parent has some reason why little Timmy just absolutely must have his TikTok machine on him at all times, just in case his mom needs to text him and can't be bothered to call the school office.
Having some state-level precedent makes this much easier for local officials, who can just say that they're following state guidelines.
has some reason why little Timmy just absolutely must have his TikTok machine on him at all times, just in case his mom needs to text him and can't be bothered to call the school office
And that's a problem why exactly? Why is every comment here pretending that there is either being glued to the screen of your phone or having it locked away, no inbetween?
Schools can somehow enforce completely rediculous clothign regulations but "the phone stays in your bag unless it's an emergency" is somehow impossible because it's some kind of law of nature that you must stare at the screen 24/7.
Do you want to have to watch your 25+ students every minute to enforce your rule, or would you like to teach your lesson?
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That's a fair point. But what's worse for a student, not paying attention in class or getting a cop sent into the classroom to arrest/assault them?
If it's a law, and the school has a cop on premises it's just a question of when will a teacher ask a cop to deal with it.
I am not sure if a law enforced by the government and courtrooms without much room for exception is the best idea. What if a student genuinely needs a phone in class?
Why couldn't the precedent be a school policy similar to how some schools might have a uniform policy? Why would it be easier to enforce a uniform policy than a no phone policy?
Also, what is the difference between a highschool and a college interms of phone use during class?
To be very clear, I was not suggesting that a cop arrest a student for opening Instagram.
My point is that schools will be significantly more able to resist parental pressure when the school boards quite literally do not have the authority to make the decision. Perhaps there is some room for exceptions with legitimate need, but I'd argue that the bar needs to be pretty high for that, because again, it was in fact possible for students to attend school without phones for essentially all of human history. If a parent really needs to get a message to a student, they can call the office.
Just saying.... after dealing with schools for my entire career, theres a reason why parents dont want to have to rely on the office to deliver anything.
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Apple and google should add location based parental control, in addition to the time based. A checkbox ‘in a school’ would be easy. Let parents disable things they don’t need like Netflix while leaving them with their emergency communication device.
Not perfect, but it would help.
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I'm in my 30s and back in college and the amount of little shit heels on Tik Tok during the professor's lecture is too damn high! (Had to)
Makes me want to walk around class and slap the phones out of their hands, maybe slap them too. Hella disrespectful to the the teach and distracting for students who actually want to be there.
I feel like college professors are often overwhelmed by the the amount of it, and really just aren't disciplinarians like K-12 teachers are.
The question is why students will watch Netflix instead of listening and learning. It wasn't better in the past as they didn't have a smartphone. The situation is different.
We live in a world in perpetual movement. The school is in a new situation. Tomorrow, the situation will change again and again.
What to do? We can go back to how we think it was in the past. But, it will never be. People and society changed. How we see the world around us changed.
Or, we can do what any government did in the past 30 years, putting money in schools and education. The school has to follow the change in the perception of the world by adapting their methods. Instead of 2x+2x=4x, you can learn 2 smartphones + 2 smartphones = 4 smartphones.
The other point is that we are in an ultra individual time. And, school can't be like that. School is a common. You have to play in team. This need to build a relationship and confidence between teachers and students and between students. But, nobody gives the time and money to do so. Bullying is high for example and isn't addressed properly.
It's not that it was better before. It changed and we didn't put the money so the school followed the perpetual change.
Also any kind of emergency can happen while a kid is at school, the obvious one for the americans is an active shooter but it could be anything even an earth quake or other disaster where it all of a sudden becomes very important for each student to have their own line of communication available.
People always say this, but somehow society and schools did manage to function before 2008.
We know that access to phones causes significantly worse student performance. Is it really worth harming all students' ability to learn just so that, in the event of a rare emergency, a family can get an "all good" message a little bit faster? Schools were perfectly able to locate and track their students during emergencies and notify families before smartphones existed, speaking as someone who was in an extreme weather emergency during school myself during that time.
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Phone safe on the wall. If there's a good reason you can always access your phone, but you don't have it in your hands while in class.
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this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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