235
submitted 8 months ago by L4s@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

No, electric vehicle sales aren’t dropping. Here’s what’s really going on::Tesla has been slashing prices. Ford just cut the price of its Mustang Mach-E, too, plus it cut back production of its electric pickup. And General Motors is thinking about bringing back plug-in hybrids, arguably a step back from EVs.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] tracer_ca@lemmy.ca 67 points 8 months ago

I'm in the market for a BEV. Have been for 3 years. The reason I don't have one is:

A. The cars that are large enough for my use case (weekend getaways with kids and or friends) are all super expensive luxury vehicles with poor ratings.

B. Availability. Other than the Mustang Mach-E, nothing is available here (Canada) without a minimum 6 month wait list. (Ioniq 5 is 1 year).

C. Poor reliability and/or features. (See the disaster that is the Chevy Blazer EV).

At this point I'm waiting for the Ioniq 7. Hopefully it will be as well reviewed as it's sister the EV9.

The reason GM and Ford are not selling well is because nobody wants what they're selling. But they're framing it as an general EV issue and not a crap product issue.

The media and those apposed to EVs are buying it of course.

[-] lagomorphlecture@lemm.ee 35 points 7 months ago

Is it so much to ask that I be able to get a vehicle that's just...normal but also an EV? Not a monster truck, not some space ship looking thing, just like a Honda Accord but an EV...I don't think that's asking so much but apparently automakers disagree.

[-] tracer_ca@lemmy.ca 4 points 7 months ago

It goes hand in hand with the prices. If you're going to spend that much more on a BEV, you want it to be different. And making it look different doesn't cost significantly more.

Also, car shape and style has so much to do with ICE vehicle design necessity.

[-] lagomorphlecture@lemm.ee 9 points 7 months ago

I mean, I don't want it to look different. I want a regular sedan or small vehicle like a Honda Fit (which is what I have now and it's a good size). I just want it to be an EV. So maybe there's a market for the weird looking cars and have massive SUVs but that's not what I want. I wouldn't be caught dead in a cyber truck or this 80s TV show sentient vehicle looking thing.

That's my 2 cents but I don't think I'm the only one.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] anivia@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago

The Hyundai Ioniq was like that, sadly they discontinued it

[-] BehindTheBarrier@programming.dev 4 points 7 months ago

I got a Peugeot 208. It's small, and ok in all aspects except the software. Typical bad car UI. It works with cabled Android Auto, so for long drives that's more than fine. But touch screen is still old, and the app/site hasn't let me log in for a few weeks now... So I can't remote start heating.

But it's a great car that I bought used, for driving to and from work. Looks good, yellow color, parking sensors and rear camera for my blind ass. But is also probably not available in America for all I know, I live in Europe.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[-] Vakbrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 8 months ago

I'm considering to get a Polestar 2 for many reasons but also because... No waiting time 😉

[-] tracer_ca@lemmy.ca 5 points 8 months ago

Oh yeah, forgot that one. Way too small for me, but a really nice car. If the Polestar 3 wasn't so stupid expensive, I'd love to get that.

[-] Celestus@lemm.ee 4 points 8 months ago

Picked up a used 2022 Polestar 2 about 6 months ago for nearly half off. No regrets, because it’s an awesome car, and I strongly recommend it

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] bisby@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

I still find it super weird. A (remote) coworker bought an ioniq 5 after 9 months on a wait list... 3 months later, I went to a dealership. they had one on the lot (3 actually). Was able to get one with 0 wait.

Looking at their website, they have 4 2024 ioniq 5s available right now, an SEL, SE, and 2x Limited.

So apparently my local dealership is the sweet spot. Or is this purely a Canada vs US thing?

[-] tracer_ca@lemmy.ca 6 points 7 months ago

Yes, availability in the US is much better. You can find a base ioniq 5 here easily now, but nobody wants those. Everyone wants the long range AWD.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] dragontamer@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

The reason GM and Ford are not selling well is because nobody wants what they’re selling. But they’re framing it as an general EV issue and not a crap product issue.

Its GM, Ford, Rivian, Lucid.

Tesla only managed to get close to their targets by dropping prices dramatically.

[-] tracer_ca@lemmy.ca 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Rivian and Lucid are exclusively luxury brands. Not shocked that they're having a hard time pushing cars over 100k CAD. I don't think they're atracting the same media attention either.

[-] dragontamer@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Audi and Subaru are also doing poorly with their EVs.

And even Tesla had to drop prices dramatically to move inventory, the sales continue even today.

Its honestly looking like an EV-industry wide problem. The car companies doing the best right now are like, Toyota and Honda, because of their ICE lineup.

[-] ShepherdPie@midwest.social 11 points 7 months ago

It's because interest rates are 5x higher than they were a couple of years ago. Nobody wants to finance a $70k car at 8%.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] tracer_ca@lemmy.ca 7 points 7 months ago

Audi: too expensive, poor reliability Subaru/Toyota: released a shit compliance car.

Again, overpriced junk. My point is that it's not that nobody wants EVs. It's that nobody wants the crap these makers are selling.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (9 replies)
[-] podperson@lemm.ee 38 points 8 months ago

Auto makers "slashing prices." With perhaps one or 2 small exceptions, can you actually go out and buy an EV for under 40K in the US? Didn't think so. Seems to be a whole lotta confusion about "demand" and the manufacturers actually making an electric car that normal people can afford.

[-] SkyNTP@lemmy.ml 28 points 8 months ago

My next car purchase if at all, will be some plugin electric (full or hybrid). The only reason I haven't purchased it yet is because the form factor I am looking for in a car hasn't been made in a plug in variety yet.

Also the stories about constant surveillance and tracking, and the push for shit-tier infotainment when I already have one in my pocket (phone) are not helping either.

Just make a dumb battery on wheels, already.

[-] mctoasterson@reddthat.com 4 points 8 months ago

This is a concern for me also. Tesla is the Apple of car companies: hipster-centric, proprietary everything, overpriced, and really bad from a privacy perspective.

I was looking at Toyotas as I hear they are reliable and have PHEV and other options, but supposedly their data privacy is also extremely poor.

I don't need a lot of the "smart" features of modern cars. I don't need my car phoning the mother ship with it's precise location and other metadata every 3/5 of a second.

I only want a rock solid drive train, basic usable control interface, a radio and maybe a USB port to play my own MP3s. Don't need apps or even navigation. I feel like most EVs are very centered on bell and whistle features and their cost is greatly inflated because of it.

[-] GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk 3 points 7 months ago

Personally, I'm keen to see if the proverbial doors get blown off the first few gens of electric cars, and the FOSS community makes headway.
I would happily buy an old Leaf if I knew we could handle all the software ourselves, and just do battery swaps when the range wasn't enough any more.

[-] anivia@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago

3rd party leaf batteries already exist

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] FrankTheHealer@lemmy.world 27 points 7 months ago

I see people on TikTok a lot saying that 'the EV bubble is gonna pop and all these suckers are gonna come crawling back to traditional combustion cars'

Like no. Batteries right now are the worse they will ever be again. This is the worst battery tech is gonna be for the rest of our lives. Theres already EVs with batteries that last a week, of just day to day commuter type travel. And have warranties up to 1,000,000 miles.

What's happening right now is a big shakeup because lots of people can only afford to buy these cars second hand, but people have anxiety about trusting a second hand car with this new tech. So used car sales people are bitching that it's hard to sell them. That doesn't mean they aren't selling though. On top of that, the transition of combustion engines to batteries is causing an industry shakeup. Like there was when we went from horses to cars. When cars first became a thing, people complained about where they will get fuel for it and how long the engine lasts.

Now 100 years on, we are complaining about where we will charge these things, and how long the batteries last.

The transition to EVs is inevitable. You can say it's not happening but you are wrong.

[-] PlaidBaron@lemmy.world 19 points 7 months ago

I own an EV. Whats to 'crawl back to'? The constant maintenance costs? The expensive fuel? The shittier driving experience? The worse noise and vibration?

Nah, bruh. Im good. I will never go back to ICE.

[-] chatokun@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 7 months ago

I have a terrible EV. Claims it has 80 miles of range but is really around 50 miles. A drive to work brings it down to 20%. The fast charge port is CHAdeMO, which at least around here is barely used, and even the electrify America places usually only have 1.

I still don't want to switch back, I just want a better one with a more common port. I work from home except for the occasional mandatory in office stuff (one coming this Thurs and probably another next month). Most of the stuff I want to drive to is within a battery's distance to go to and from. About the only thing that really sucks is vacations to visit family.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] vvv@programming.dev 25 points 8 months ago

Gen 2 chevy volt owner here, PHEVs are absolutely not a step back. If I didn't buy the volt, the one car our family could afford would have been an ICE car. IMO, these things help bridge idealism with current reality - for most of my day-to-day, I drive a fully electric car. I just also get the option to toss some gas into it when on a long road trip.

[-] polygon6121@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

Probably the best bet right now. Both from a cost perspective and using resources better. One big battery in a single car vs 10 batteries in 10 PHEV. If we want to make a real impact right now the PHEV are a great choice and can reach more people. Then of course, the best is not drive any car at all, asvoften as possible. Taking public transport or walking/cycling is much better than than any BEV, imagine if every car owner would drive 10% less, that would make a huge impact. Much larger than building a fuck ton of BEVs from a sustainability standpoint.

[-] Pxtl@lemmy.ca 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Yeah, this. For people with short commutes and in the market for a compact I strongly recommend the Prius Prime. Having a vehicle that can get to work and back without using gas at all, but also can go on long road trips without range anxiety? Perfect. And as an entry-level into the plug-in world, it's nice that I can charge it on regular 110 instead of having to think about an upgrade to an oven-port.

[-] PeachMan@lemmy.world 24 points 8 months ago

General Motors is thinking about bringing back plug-in hybrids

GREAT! Ditching PHEV's was a stupid idea, we don't have the charging infrastructure for most people to buy EV's moving forward. We need an interim solution, and PHEV's work great. They use a LOT less gas for most people (depending on driving habits) but you have the fuel tank in case you're on a long road trip, or in a charging desert.

Have y'all seen the new Prius Prime? It starts at $33k, it actually looks kinda cool (subjectively), and it's FAST (objectively). We need more cars like that.

[-] wolre@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago

Highly depends on where you are in the world. I feel like PHEVs might make some sense in America, in Europe demand is shrinking every year since charging networks have gotten fairly good and BEVs offer more flexibility in terms of charging, especially if you can't charge at home.

[-] T156@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

They arguably do in Australia, since the charging infrastructure is poor to non-existent in some places.

Melbourne, one of the major cities, has about seven charging stations for the entire metropolis. Until the charging network is built up more effectively, if you live there, it would make more sense to buy a PHEV to tide you over until it became practical to run electric all the time.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] filister@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

PHEV in my opinion is a really dumb idea. It got popular, because it was an easy way for car manufacturers to continue making large SUVs and adhere to even stricter fuel efficiency restrictions, while also benefitting from generous state subsidies. Now that those subsidies are either scaled down or completely removed the PHEV sector is shrinking fast.

The benefit of EV is not only that you can charge at your own garage but that you also have lower maintenance cost and even if the upfront cost is higher, your cost over time lowers the more you drive it and depending on electricity prices, etc. you can break even with ICE.

With PHEV, the maintenance cost is higher than ICE, because at the end you need to service and maintain two engines.

[-] PeachMan@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

No. It all depends on how you drive it. If you just drive a PHEV around town and do the occasional road trip (which is how most people drive) then the ICE engine sees very little wear and requires very little service.

If you're doing constant road trips and burning up the road, a PHEV is not for you. And neither is an EV, honestly.

[-] Fisch@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago

An EV would work if the infrastructure was there. Modern EV batteries can charge full in like 15 minutes but it's not even gonna take that long cause you'll obviously not be plugging it in at 0%. The charger needs to support that amount of power throughput tho tbf.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[-] sierraoscar@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

IMO its a great idea right now because IIRC 90% of round trips are 50 miles or less. So if you have a 200 mile battery, 75% of it is dead weight most the time. PHEVs remove the range anxiety present in most parts of the US with poor charger networks. Plus if battery manufacturing becomes a bottleneck in the near future it will be good to reduce the amount needed per car.

Maybe in the future good charger networks and much cheaper batteries will solve the problem but for the next 20 years I think PHEVs will fill an important role.

[-] T156@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

At the same time, a PHEV is a good stopgap if you live in a place with poor charging infrastructure. You might be able to charge enough to drive locally, but not when going some place farther afield. For example, I may be able to charge enough to drive around the neighbourhood from my socket, but literally half the city does not have any kind of EV charging capability, making a BEV unsuitable.

A PHEV would do better there, since I could switch to petrol if needed, and run in EV mode otherwise, and when charging infrastructure becomes good enough that I can live without the petrol part, then it might be worth switching to BEV.

PHEV in my opinion is a really dumb idea. It got popular, because it was an easy way for car manufacturers to continue making large SUVs and adhere to even stricter fuel efficiency restrictions, while also benefitting from generous state subsidies. Now that those subsidies are either scaled down or completely removed the PHEV sector is shrinking fast.

I'd argue that to be less of a issue with PHEV, since they weren't all that common to start with, and more of an issue with things like Mild Hybrids where the motor is just there to give the ICE a little boost, and precious little else.

With PHEV, the maintenance cost is higher than ICE, because at the end you need to service and maintain two engines.

I would be curious if they are. ECVT systems don't seem that much more complex than an equivalent automatic transmission, since the motor doubles as the starter and internal brake bands.

Maybe for the diesel-electric locomotive-type drivetrain that Opel's Ampera-E uses, since it's basically an EV with an onboard generator, but even then, maintenance costs could easily be offset by the ICE not running as often or as hard.

The catalytic converters of hybrid cars are often sought after because they are cleaner and don't see as much wear as their ICE counterparts. It would not be much of a stretch for that logic to extend to hybrid engines.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 5 points 8 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


And now the EPA is considering slowing down requirements for automakers to sell more electric vehicles, dialing back what had been aggressive plans to move away from gas powered cars and SUVs.

Industry experts cite a number of reasons for this, including vehicle price, lack of charging capacity and confusing tax credit rules.

Besides being too expensive for the average buyer, selection is limited in terms of body style, said Corey Cantor, an industry analyst with Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

This is why Ford recently cut prices for the Mach-E SUV and why Farley created a team to work on a less expensive EV engineering platform that will be the basis for future models.

BMW, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, and Stellantis have come together to create a joint venture that plans to install about 30,000 chargers across the United States and Canada.

In the words of the Portuguese auto executive, who spoke to journalists in New York recently, public EV charging needs to “jump on your face” before most customers will consider an electric vehicle.


The original article contains 1,022 words, the summary contains 176 words. Saved 83%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[-] dirthawker0@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Hertz is also selling a lot of its rental Teslas, which is probably cutting into the new car sales.

[-] 1Transient@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

😱NO! Its all just a lie....keep buying EVs.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
235 points (100.0% liked)

Technology

58845 readers
4425 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS