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Tough break, kid... (programming.dev)
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[-] camr_on@lemmy.world 106 points 9 months ago

What prompt did you use to make this 🤨🤔

[-] EldritchFeminity 48 points 9 months ago

The irony. I bet the guy who prompted that calls himself an artist.

[-] kender242@lemmy.world 20 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Was going to comment about how there is a stock photo for everything. Fingers seem too good for AI?

Nevermind, that kids right hand... 😅

[-] lugal@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago

Also: the middle fingers are far too long

[-] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

Now look at his eyelids...

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[-] p1mrx@sh.itjust.works 14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)
[-] lugal@lemmy.ml 86 points 9 months ago

That's why I'm proud to be also programming in HTML

[-] bignate31@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

it's only real programming if you also use CSS

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[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 61 points 9 months ago

"prompt engineering"

Sounds made up af

[-] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 19 points 9 months ago

The US add engineer to everything to sound most prestigious than they are. If you sell your service as a AI prompt writer, you get paid peanuts. If you sell the same service as AI prompt engineer, the C-Suites cream their pants.

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[-] anarchist@lemmy.ml 43 points 9 months ago
[-] FIST_FILLET@lemmy.ml 36 points 9 months ago

“prompt engineering” in itself is such an embarrassing term for the act of saying “computer uhhh show me epic boobies!!”

like that joke about calling dishwashing “submerged porcelain technician” but unironically

[-] GravitySpoiled@lemmy.ml 36 points 9 months ago
[-] pigup@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago
[-] Alexstarfire@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

If you look close enough, all pictures are fake.

[-] synae@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 9 months ago
[-] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 4 points 9 months ago

Hey, no need to accuse the guy of cutting tvs to get out of honoring the warranty.

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[-] doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 30 points 9 months ago

It's not engineering either. Or art. It's only barely writing, in an overly literal sense.

[-] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 29 points 9 months ago

People in glass houses...

Software engineering isn't engineering.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 25 points 9 months ago

Yes, it is. Mostly because "real engineering" isn't the high bar it's made out to be. From that blog:

Nobody I read in these arguments, not one single person, ever worked as a “real” engineer. At best they had some classical training in the classroom, but we all know that looks nothing like reality. Nobody in this debate had anything more than stereotypes to work with. The difference between the engineering in our heads and in reality has been noticed by others before, most visibly by Glenn Vanderburg. He read books on engineering to figure out the difference. But I wanted to go further.

Software has developed in an area where the cost of failure is relatively low. We might make million dollar mistakes, but it's not likely anybody dies from it. In areas where somebody could die from bad software, techniques like formal verification come into play. Those tend to make everything take 10 times longer, and there's no compelling reason for the industry at large to do that.

If anything, we should lean into this as an advantage. How fast can we make the cycle of change to deployment?

[-] Alexstarfire@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago

I help make Healthcare software. Mistakes can easily lead to death. Not most, but it's something we always have to worry about.

[-] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago

We might make million dollar mistakes, but it’s not likely anybody dies from it.

I had a coworker who got a gig writing PDA software for a remote-controlled baseball machine. He was to this day the most incompetent programmer I've ever met personally; his biggest mistake on this project was firing a 120 mph knuckleball (a pitch with no spin so its flight path is incredibly erratic) a foot over a 12-year-old kid's head. This was the only time in my 25-year career that I had to physically restrain someone (the client, in this case) to prevent a fist fight. I replaced my coworker on the project after this and you can bet I took testing a little bit more seriously than he did.

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[-] DontRedditMyLemmy@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

In many cases this is accurate. Programming alone doesn't amount to engineering. Lotta low quality lines of code being churned out these days because standards have dropped.

[-] okamiueru@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

By how some teams operate, and some developers think, there is certainly cases where the "engineering" aspect is hard to find.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago

Bro if you could get there just by prompting, it would be.

There are no models good enough to just ask for something to be done and it gets done.

There will be someday though.

[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 41 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Build an entire ecosystem, with multiple frontends, apps, databases, admin portals. It needs to work with my industry. Make it run cheap on the cloud. Also make sure it's pretty.

The prompts are getting so large we may need to make some sort of... Structured language to pipe into.. a device that would.. compile it all...

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

I mean it can start much smaller.

Here is access to a jira board. Here are unit tests. Do stuff until it works.

[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 17 points 9 months ago

Perfect! We'll just write out the definition of the product completely in Jira, in a specific way, so the application can understand it - tweak until it's perfect, write unit tests around our Jira to make sure those all work - maybe we write a structured way to describe each item aaand we've reinvented programming.

I see where you're going, but I've worked with AI models for the last year in depth, and there's some really cool stuff they can do. However, truly learning about them means learning their hard pitfalls, and LLMs as written would not be able to build an entire application. They can help speed up parts of it, but the more context means more VRAM exponentially, and eventually larger models, and that's just to get code spit out. Not to mention there is nuance in English that's hard to express, that requirements are never perfect, that LLMs can iterate for very long before they run out of VRAM, that they can't do devops or hook into running apps - the list goes on.

AI has been overhyped by business because they're frothing at the mouth to automate everyone away - which is too bad because what it does do well it does great at - with limitations. This is my... 3rd or 4th cycle where business has assumed they can automate away engineers, and each time it just ends up generating new problems that need to be solved. Our jobs will evolve, sure, but we're not going away.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

I mean, I had beta access to ChatGPT and have gotten excellent results from clever use, so I don't appreciate the appeal to authority.

No, the jobs are going away and you are delusional if you think otherwise. ChatGPT is the DeepBlue of these kinds of models, and a global effort is being made to get to the AlphaGo level of these models. It will happen, probably in weeks to months. A company, like Microsoft for example, could build something like this, never release it to the public, and if successful, can suddenly out-compete every other software company on the planet. 100%.

Your attitude is a carbon copy of the same naysaying attitude that could be see all over hackernews before ChatGPT found its way to the front page. That AI wasn't ever going to do XY or Z. Then it does. Then the goal posts have to move.

AI will be writing end to end architecture, writing teh requirements documents, filling out the jira tickets. Building the unit tests. If you don't think that a company would LOVE to depart with its 250k+ per year software engineers, bro...

[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 10 points 9 months ago

lol okay dude. Flippantly you ignored all of the limitations I pointed out. Sure it could happen, but not on the timeline you're discussing. There is no way within a year that they have replaced software engineers, I call absolute BS on that. I doubt it will rise above copilot within a year. I see it being used alongside code for a long time, calling out potential issues, optimizing where it can, and helping in things like building out yaml files. It cannot handle an entire solution, the hardware doesn't exist for it. It also can't handle specific contexts for business use-cases. Again maybe, but it'll be a while - and even then our jobs shift to building out models and structuring AI prompts in a stable way.

My attitude is the same because these are the same issues that it's faced. I'm not arguing that it's not a great tool to be used, and I see a lot of places for it. But it's naiive to say that it can replace an engineer at it's stage, or in the near future. Anyone who has worked with it would tell you that.

I firmly do think companies want to replace their 250k engineers. That's why I know that most of it is hype. The same hype that existed 20 years ago when they came out with designers for UIs, the same hype when react and frontend frameworks came out. Python was built to allow anyone to code, and that was another "end of engineers". Cloud claimed to be able to remove entire IT departments, but those jobs just shifted to DevOps engineers. The goalposts moved each time, but the demand for qualified engineers went up because now they needed to know these new technologies.

Why do you think I worked with AI so much over the last year? I see my job evolving, I'm getting ready for it. This has happened before - those who don't learn new tech get left behind, those who learn it keep going. I may not be coding in python in 10 years, god knows I wasn't doing what I was 10 years ago - but it's laughable to me to think that engineers are done and over with.

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[-] marcos@lemmy.world 21 points 9 months ago

There are no models good enough to just ask for something to be done and it gets done.

We call those "compilers". There are many of them.

[-] pewgar_seemsimandroid 13 points 9 months ago
[-] sundray@lemmus.org 10 points 9 months ago

But is "prompt hacking" considered actual "hacking?"

[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Using an IDE isn't programming either

But I'll definitely prefer hiring someone who does. Sure, you can code in Vi without plugins, but why? Leave your elitism at home. We have deadlines and money to make.

Edit: The discussions I've had about AI here on Lemmy and Hackernews have seriously made me consider asking whether or not the candidate uses AI tools as an interview question, with the only correct answer a variation of "Yes I do".

Boomer seniors scared of new tools is why Oracle is still around. I don't want any of those on my team.

[-] dukk@programming.dev 18 points 9 months ago

AI’s not bad, it just doesn’t save me time. For quick, simple things, I can do it myself faster than the AI. For more big, complex tasks, I find myself rigorously checking the AI’s code to make sure no new bugs or vulnerabilities are introduced. Instead of reviewing that code, I’d rather just write it myself and have the confidence that there are no glaring issues. Beyond more intelligent autocomplete, I don’t really have much of a need for AI when I program.

[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 5 points 9 months ago

This is how I use it, and it's a great way for me to speed up. It's a rubber duck for me. I have a fake conversation, it gives me different ideas or approaches to solve a problem. It does amazing with that

The code it spits out is something else though. The code it's trained on in GitHub means it could be based on someone with 2 months experience writing their CS201 program, or a seasoned experienced engineer. I've found it faster to get the gist of what it's saying, then rewrite it to fit my application.

Not even mentioning the about 50% chance response of "hey why don't you use this miracle function that does exactly what you need" and then you realize that the miracle function doesn't exist, and it just made it up.

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[-] HopFlop@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 9 months ago

Using an IDE definety IS programming.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 5 points 9 months ago

Sure, you can code in Vi without plugins, but why? Leave your elitism at home. We have deadlines and money to make.

Nothing elitist about it. Vim is not a modular tool that I can swap out of my mental model. Before someone says it, I've tried VS Code's vim plugin, and it sucks ass.

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[-] OpenStars@startrek.website 7 points 9 months ago

Looks like every Christmas I've ever had...

j/k, or am I?

No I am... but am I really? :-P

[-] JoShmoe@ani.social 6 points 9 months ago
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[-] dipshit@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

BUT I TOOK ALL THESE COURSES!

[-] Daxtron2@startrek.website 4 points 9 months ago

Made by someone who doesn't utilize LLMs effectively

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this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
982 points (100.0% liked)

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