it's official: according to Hawaii, guns have no chill
They're tools designed specifically for killing, that's kind of the point
Hand guns are made for killin'
They ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like to drink your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
Don't kill the chill.
Is all I ever asked.
Open carry does not pass the "vibe check"
I was just in Hawaii a few weeks ago. Both touristy and non-touristy areas. I can concur, would be a weird ass vibe if I saw someone open carry
"Don't kill the chill"
"Aloha Motherfucker"
Hmm here is an idea. What if we made a religion that was against open carry and was technically Christianity? Could we use the veto power religion now has over the Bill of Rights?
No. Religious arguments against abortion are actually relying on the definition of what constitutes a life, not the pure fact that their religion says it's wrong.
You can get out of military service this way though.
It has nothing to do with the possibility of ending a life, otherwise republicans would actually care about what happens in schools (be it shootings or diddling, republicans are OK with them happening in schools).
at least theyre tryin
It was always that way, the problem was that they wouldn’t give out permits to anyone.
That's didn't feel like a problem. No permits, no guns.
That only applies to law abiding citizens. To be fair though this is Hawaii we're talking about so I imagine it's much harder to obtain a gun illegally there.
Considering the easiest way to get a gun "illegally" is to buy one in the bordering state with the most lax gun laws and then smuggle it back into your state, yeah, getting one in Hawaii is probably more difficult than getting one in Mexico.
I hate this argument because it shows just how little people know about gun laws.
It's federally illegal to buy a pistol outside of your home state. You can't just go to a gun shop the next state over and buy a Glock 17.
For long guns, the seller must follow the laws of the state in which it is sold AND in which the buyer lives.
When I sold guns and someone from New Jersey wanted to buy a rifle, they had to produce their New Jersey permit and I to do the New Jersey background check and waiting period on top of the NICS background check required federally. I had to reference New Jersey laws and could only sell guns that were legal in that state.
We had a spreadsheet we kept up to date with every firearm we had in stock, new or used, listing whether it was legal in each state.
It blows my mind that people who correctly identify the reasons the war on drugs is a failure seem to expect the same policies and logic to work on guns.
Because gun laws have worked in other places. Canada, Australia, The UK, etc don't have this problem.
One of the best things the govt here in aus did in my lifetime, was tighten gun laws and buy back as many guns as they could. While we're by no means free of gun violence and homicides, we very rarely have incidents like mass/school shootings.
I would be cautious of attributing the falling rates of firearms related crimes to the 1996 buyback [source]. It can be argued that the rates were already dropping prior to the 1996 buyback. This can also be further shown in other countries around the world that didn't enact such laws. For example, all of western Europe has shown declines in homocide rates since the 90s [source]:
This matches up with Australia [source]:
And, it matches up with the UK [source]:
The same goes for the USA, and Canada.
we very rarely have incidents like mass/school shootings.
For the sake of clarity, here is a list of all the mass shootings that have happened in Australia -- from that list, I count 24 since the firearms buyback in the wake of the Tasmania mass shooting.
Actually, comparing violent gun crimes in the US and Australia reveals significant differences in homicide rates, mass shootings, and overall gun violence.
In summary, the US has higher rates of homicide and overall gun violence compared to Australia. These differences are influenced by stricter gun control laws in Australia and the higher prevalence of firearms in the US.
Citations: [1] On gun violence, the United States is an outlier https://www.healthdata.org/news-events/insights-blog/acting-data/gun-violence-united-states-outlier [2] Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime [3] The Effects of the 1996 National Firearms Agreement in Australia on Suicide, Homicide, and Mass Shootings https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/1996-national-firearms-agreement.html [4] What can Australia's reaction to a mass shooting teach us about guns and gun control? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-can-australias-reaction-to-a-mass-shooting-teach-us-about-guns-and-gun-control/ [5] Comparing Mental Illness, Gun Violence in the U.S., Australia and U.K. https://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/mental-illness-gun-violence.php [6] Australia Murder/Homicide Rate 1990-2024 https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/murder-homicide-rate [7] [PDF] Firearms theft in Australia : a six-month exploratory analysis - Australian Institute of Criminology https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-05/tbp020.pdf [8] Gun laws of Australia - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia [9] Australia vs United States: Crime > Violent crime Facts and Stats https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime/Violent-crime [10] Crime in Australia - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Australia [11] Gun Control in Australia - FactCheck.org https://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun-control-in-australia/ [12] Gun control: what makes Australian and US laws so different? - Law Society Journal https://lsj.com.au/articles/gun-control-what-makes-australian-and-us-laws-so-different/ [13] Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted. https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback [14] Australia’s homicide rate is down over 50% from the 1990s, despite a small blip during COVID https://theconversation.com/australias-homicide-rate-is-down-over-50-from-the-1990s-despite-a-small-blip-during-covid-202730 [15] PolitiFact - Viral post is wrong about Australia’s gun laws, violent crime statistics https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jan/13/facebook-posts/no-viral-post-isnt-correct-australias-gun-laws-vio/ [16] U.S. Gun Policy: Global Comparisons https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-gun-policy-global-comparisons [17] Mass shootings and firearm https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-06/draft_of_trends_issues_paper_mass_shootings_and_firearm_control_comparing_australia_and_the_united_states_submitted_to_peer_review.pdf [18] World Bank Open Data https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?locations=AU [19] Australian Gun Control Measures Are Ineffective (From Gun Control, P 260-268, 1992, Charles P Cozic, ed. -- See NCJ-160164) https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/australian-gun-control-measures-are-ineffective-gun-control-p-260 [20] Gun Deaths by Country 2024 https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country [21] International https://www.fsb.miamioh.edu/lij14/p_taylor.pdf [22] Mental Illness and Gun Violence in the United States, Australia, and United Kingdom: Clinical and Public Health Challenges - The American Journal of Medicine https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(23)00738-6/fulltext [23] Implications of the Australian Experience With Firearm Regulation for US Gun Policy https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6187769/ [24] The stats https://www.gunsafetyalliance.org.au/the-stats/ [25] Criminal use of handguns in Australia - Australian Institute of Criminology https://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi361
count 24 since the firearms buyback
And the US has roughly 13x the population of Aus, so you would expect the US to only have 312 mass shootings in the same time frame, but the actual number is massively bigger than that.
Also it's extremely disingenuous to try passing off a decrease in overall homicide rates as a relevant argument against un control. Especially when you're not even considering the actual relevant statistics.
Based on what metric are you making that claim? Canada, for example, certainly still has an issue with firearm related crimes [source]. It is also quite arguable that firearms laws even have an effect on reducing crime in general [source] (I will concede that this source, the fraser institute, isn't the most reliable, but their data does show some interesting things that cannot be ignored). Furthermore, it has been reported that the majority of handgun related crime, in Canada, is done with handguns that were illegally owned -- they were smuggled in from the USA.
One could point to some trends of firearms rates decreasing and attributing them to firearms bans, but the devil is often in the details. For example, this study by Rand stated that firearms related crimes in Australia were already on a downward trend piror to the 1996 buyback, and similar dips in violent crime can be seen many other western countries that didn't adopt such strict gun-control measures -- violent crime, in general, appears that it has been on a downward trend for quite some time.
Are you really trying to make a comparison without actually comparing the numbers?
Comparing gun crimes in the US and Canada reveals significant differences in homicide rates, violent crimes, and robbery incidents involving firearms.
Firearms per 100 Residents: The US has a much higher number of guns per 100 residents (88.8) compared to Canada (30.8), which correlates with higher rates of gun-related crimes[1].
Gun Origin: A significant portion of guns used in crimes in Ontario, Canada, were traced back to the United States, indicating cross-border implications of US gun policies on Canadian gun crime[2].
In summary, the US has higher rates of homicide, violent crimes, and robberies involving firearms compared to Canada. These differences are influenced by stricter gun control laws in Canada and the higher prevalence of firearms in the US.
Citations: [1] Canada vs United States: Crime > Violent crime Facts and Stats https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime/Violent-crime [2] In fighting gun crime, Canada has an American problem https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/in-fighting-gun-crime-canada-has-an-american-problem-1.6004198 [3] Statistics Canada – Catalogue no. 85-002-XPE Vol. 21 no. 11 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/85-002-x2001011-eng.pdf [4] reuters.com https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/fighting-gun-crime-canada-has-an-american-problem-2022-07-27/ [5] Firearms, Accidental Deaths, Suicides and Violent Crime: An Updated Review of the Literature with Special Reference to the Canadian Situation https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/jsp-sjp/wd98_4-dt98_4/p57.html [6] Canada and United States homicide rate 2022 | Statista https://www.statista.com/statistics/526539/canada-us-homicide-rate/ [7] Archived Content https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/011218/dq011218b-eng.htm [8] Charting gun violence in the United States | CBC News https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gun-violence-charts-us-1.6847911 [9] America doesn’t have more crime than other rich countries. It just has more guns. https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9217163/america-guns-europe-homicide-rates-murder-crime [10] NCJRS Virtual Library https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/canadas-low-gun-homicide-rate-proves-effectiveness-gun-control-gun [11] Number of robberies in the U.S. by weapon 2022 | Statista https://www.statista.com/statistics/251914/number-of-robberies-in-the-us-by-weapon/ [12] How the U.S. gun violence death rate compares with the rest of the world https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/10/31/1209683893/how-the-u-s-gun-violence-death-rate-compares-with-the-rest-of-the-world [13] Gun Violence in Canada - Connecticut General Assembly https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS94/rpt/olr/htm/94-R-0882.htm [14] Canada vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime
Because guns are not the same as drugs. Hence the rules should be different.
Do you need target practice to shoot heroin? Do you seek self medication by going out and waving a gun around? for some reason one seems much less threatening to the general populous than the other
We’re all here wondering if this is to convince yourself, or just bad sarcasm.
Now only the police and criminals will have guns, and law abiding citizens will be at the mercy of both.
They could like, get a permit
True, and I’m cool with that but people take issue with things like that because it puts a financial barrier around the ability to defend themselves. Which doesn’t really hold weight when the gun itself is a financial barrier lol
Genuine question: Why don’t 2A people also complain about driver’s licenses then? I really don’t understand. It’s the same barrier (if not even worse).
The argument may be that driving isn't in the constitution. You don't need a permit to travel, just to drive a car on public roads. I like my guns but I'm fine with permitting if you are carrying in public.
Well as long as the SCOTUS is being text only your guns aren't in it either. It should be guns that exists in 1791 and only if you are in a well-regulated militia. Which I am fine with. We should start a militia, that is well regulated, and open to adults to join where they get 1791 guns to do whatever it is militias are supposed to do.
A lot of them unironjcally do, and they think that things like seatbekt laws and drunk driving laws are bad.
The cost of complying with the dozens of legal hoops is often like 10-20x or more than the price of just a cheap pistol itself.
Larger financial barriers just mean if you're rich you can do what you want and if you're not, you're fucked, which often leads to people breaking these dumb laws and the cycle getting worse.
No, you can't. Hawaii is not a shall-issue state. It's pretty much impossible to get a permit there. Also, criminals won't be getting permits so why should we make law abiding citizens get them.
Make the bad thing illegal. Don't make the tools or the intermediate steps illegal
Have you seen, like, a single statistic about what uncontrolled gun distribution does to a country?
It's absolutely insane to have that many guns around you and somehow perceive that as some moral good instead of the very real danger it is.
I can't imagine how sad you life must be to waste your time trolling on lemmy. But I hope the angry replies you get help you with your attention issues.
It's not a waste of time to stand up for the truth and not a waste of time to stand up for the rights and principles you believe in.
My dude, your post history is public. Anyone can go there and see you're just a troll that says controversial shit to get a rise out of people. You can keep up the act if you want, but no one is buying it.
Just go play roblox or something instead. It's a better use of your time kid.
relaxed condescending chuckles from Canada
I love the aloha spirit! I hope it spreads like COVID. I mean, in a good way.
I like gun
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