[-] purplepuppy@links.hackliberty.org 39 points 7 months ago

This is how Trump won in the first place, wikileaks published emails of Hilary's campaign doing this. Instead of critisizing her for being responsible for Trump, democrats blamed Russia and attecked Wikileaks as Russian spies, literally called for shooting the messenger.

This is a prime example of why voting for lesser evil is not a tactic in politics and the whole liberal ideology as whole that we just need to vote for right people, instead of removing powerful positions in government in the first place.

[-] rwhitisissle@lemmy.ml 28 points 7 months ago

The wikileaks thing is highly suspect, though. Like, wikileaks intentionally disclosed a lot of publicly damaging dirt on Clinton and the Dems at a very sensitive time in the election while not releasing ANYTHING on the GOP, even though they supposedly had that information.

[-] wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I mean Hilary had been personally, as Secretary of State, responsible for Julian's persecution for years and years, it's no surprise he would have had a grunge against her, with good reasons. It's also highly likely no one from the Dems side thought WikiLeaks was a good avenue for leaks because of it, and so no material was submitted. It's not really suspect, it's just logical.

[-] pingveno@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 months ago

How so? I'm sure Clinton was pissed off that he published leaked documents originating from her department, but prosecution is not the role of the Secretary of State in the US government. And besides that, Sweden issued an arrest warrant in November 2010 and she resigned in February 2013. That's what, two years?

[-] wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

https://www.npr.org/2010/11/29/131668950/white-house-aims-to-limit-wikileaks-damage

"Let's be clear. This disclosure is not just an attack on America -- it's an attack on the international community," Clinton said Monday at a State Department news conference. Such leaks, she said, "tear at the fabric" of responsible government.

[...]

Clinton emphasized that she wanted to "make it clear to the American people and to our friends and partners that we are taking aggressive steps" to hold those who leaked the documents to account.

The cable leaks had everything to do with the State Department has it pertained mostly to foreign affairs, and American involvement and meddling in various countries.

The cable leak is what Julian is being prosecuted for right now, not the dropped charges from Sweden. We also now know for a fact that there was a secret indictment in the US the whole time.

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[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago

There is nothing suspect about wikileaks, blueAnon just needs to learn to take responsibility for their actions

[-] pingveno@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago

Nothing suspect besides them turning into Putin's laundromat. Oh, and then there was the not so subtle pushing of conspiracy theories exploiting Seth Rich's death. Real class act there.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 9 points 7 months ago

nah, the real class act is the shit that we now know about what US does around the world and domestically thanks to wikileaks

[-] pingveno@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago

I used to love Wikileaks. They did genuine good throughout the years. That reputation was forever sullied in 2016 when Assange showed that he could be the puppet for one dictatorial regime (Putin) to promote a proto-fascist (Trump). Then the lies that he used as a coverup! Hardly befitting the head of a "radical transparency" organization. It was all so grotesque and petty. Trump might have just disappeared after 2016 if he hadn't been elected, but instead the world has to deal with the consequences of the MAGAts for the foreseeable future. It felt like Assange betrayed the underlying cause of Wikileaks in favor of petty revenge on Democrats.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago

🙄

[-] vzq 20 points 7 months ago

This is what first past the post does to a country.

[-] dessalines@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago

Countries without FPTP aren't exempt from any of this problem. Australia and Japan for example use different voting systems, and far-right governments and parties are and have been on the rise there also.

[-] vzq 3 points 7 months ago

That’s not what this meme is about though.

[-] PatMustard@feddit.uk 14 points 7 months ago

If you have two potential opponents, a slightly crazy one and a really crazy one, and you think you're more likely to be able to beat the really crazy one then it's a calculated risk to try and help the really crazy one beat the slightly crazy one for you. Your gamble doesn't pay off if suddenly the really crazy one beats you though.

[-] 93maddie94@lemm.ee 11 points 7 months ago

Not only that, the article states that they’ve only succeeded 4 out of 13 times getting the really crazy one nominated. So they’re playing with fire and wasting millions.

[-] archomrade@midwest.social 1 points 7 months ago

And if the four times they succeeded, how many times did they lose to the crazy opponent?

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago

Which one is the slightly crazy one, would that be the one that's conducting a literal genocide right now?

[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 11 points 7 months ago

First of all, define "conducting", second of all, you cannot seriously tell me you believe that Trump, if elected, will stop funneling arms to Gaza

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago

Conducting as in actively engaged in supplying Israel with weapons used to commit the genocide, running political cover for Israel at the UN by doing vetoes of ceasefire resolutions, and attacking Yemen for interdicting shipping with Israel. I imagine that Trump will continue largely the same policies, but that just shows that both parties are genocidal fascists.

[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

If it's all the same to you, then, I'll vote for the candidate that isn't saying he wants to bring the fascism to our side of the pond. I'm not remotely condoning the genocide in Israel, dgmw, but given the choice between mass death over there, and mass death over there and mass deportations and anti-human rights laws back home, I'll go with the first option.

I hate Joe Biden as much as the next leftist, and I am sincerely begging everyone reading this to vote for someone else in the Democratic primary, but if it comes down to Biden or Trump, please, please tell me that you will vote for Biden instead of staying home

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Vote for whatever flavor of fascism that you feel fits you best. I'm not stopping you. Meanwhile, I'm not an American and I'm just watching your shithole country tear itself apart from the outside.

[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 4 points 7 months ago

I'm not sure there's anything I can do in this situation that would cause you not to call me a fascist. If that's your position, find a different position.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago

If you think that voting for one fascist over the other makes you a good person then maybe take a bit time to think about your morals. Unlike you, I don't need to do mental gymnastics to justify supporting fascists.

[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

You're right. Instead of voting for either candidate I should just... what? Move to whatever country you live in? Worse, stay home and stick it to both candidates by showing them I'd be okay with either one?

There are some really stupid liberal takes out there, but "voting for either one makes you complicit in fascism" is by far the stupidest.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago

Maybe what you should do is consider how your country got where it is today. People like you voted for Biden last election, what has that achieved? Trump is more popular than ever, and Biden is conducting a genocide, while being involved in wars around the globe. If you think voting for Biden again is going to change the trajectory of things then I got a bridge to sell you. You have a fascist state, and both parties represent the ruling class that makes decisions. That's what it means to live in a fascist state, it's not a democracy. Your voting does not matter, it's just a circus to make the feeble minded feel like they have participation. Don't take it from me though, here's what a study analyzing decades of US policy under both parties has to say:

What do our findings say about democracy in America? They certainly constitute troubling news for advocates of “populistic” democracy, who want governments to respond primarily or exclusively to the policy preferences of their citizens. In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule—at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.

[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

What voting for Biden will accomplish is preventing Trump from entering office and all of my rights from being stripped away, and that is very important to me.

Your take seems to be "I'm so leftist I refuse to vote because voting is pointless." If that's correct, then I'm going to choose to believe you're a right wing troll who's trying to convince me not to vote so your candidate will win, because that's easier than believing that anyone on Earth is so far up their own ass that they've convinced themselves that doing nothing and letting the world get worse on its own is the best political statement they can make.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago

Ah yes, just like voting Biden prevented abortion rights from being stripped away, or stopped the concentration camps on the border, or stopped endless wars. Yeah, I totally see why it's so important to vote Biden.

Again, I'll try spell it out for you. I absolutely don't care whether you vote or not. If it makes you feel like you're participating politically, go ahead vote for Biden and feel like you've accomplished something. Your country is still going to be fascist and your right will still be stripped away, but you'll get to feel really smug by having voted. The fact that Americans see voting as peak political participation is absolutely hilarious.

[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

WHAT. WOULD. YOU. HAVE. ME. DO. INSTEAD?

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 6 points 7 months ago

Educate yourself on effective methods of building grassroots power. You can read up on how the labour movement organized in US back in the 30s which lead to the New Deal. Organize with people in your local community and help educate them. Join a principled organization that's trying to effect meaningful change.

Again, I'm not telling you not to vote. That's just a straw man you keep erecting here. What I'm actually telling you is that voting on its own doesn't accomplish much of anything.

[-] joenforcer@midwest.social 4 points 7 months ago

Ignore this guy. I'm seeing a lot of "both sides bad" hot takes lately and I get the feeling we're seeing a lot of seeds of doubt disinformation spreading like we got back in 2016. Abandon the troll, he can't vote anyway.

[-] Facebones@reddthat.com 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

"Anybody left of Biden is a troll and worse than Republicans"

Y'all out here claiming to not be fascist but you've got exactly one song to sing and it's fascist as hell. "We aren't fascist we're just the only chance to save this country and anybody left of us is explicitly less than human and will be referred to as such at every possible turn"

[-] joenforcer@midwest.social 2 points 7 months ago

Nobody said any of that. Get over your persecution complex.

[-] BmeBenji@lemm.ee 9 points 7 months ago

This is some next-level fucked up man-behind-the-man-behind-the-curtain conspiracy bullshit.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 25 points 7 months ago

It's literally a documented fact.

[-] BmeBenji@lemm.ee 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Has anyone reported on it aside from a self-proclaimed conservative news outlet?

Edit: Just found NPR reporting on it

That doesn’t change that this planet can’t burn up soon enough.

[-] BossDj@lemm.ee 9 points 7 months ago

Yay context!

a number of Democrats tried to boost far-right Republican candidates whom they deemed easier to beat in November.

The strategy seems to have paid off: In high-profile races where Democratic candidates or groups successfully used the strategy during the primaries, all of the Republicans they helped have either lost or are trailing, two days after Election Day.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago

A perfect example of short term thinking that plagues US politics. Democrats boosted popularity of the far right to win a primary. This directly contributed to the republicans party sliding further into MAGA territory. Now, dems are looking at a wipe out by Trump in the coming election. This continues the great tradition of liberals ushering in fascism.

[-] ISometimesAdmin@the.coolest.zone 12 points 7 months ago

If the GOP wanted to counterattack, they could always start funding hyper-progressive candidates too 🙂

[-] BossDj@lemm.ee 5 points 7 months ago

I think they discovered that was at least going on with Bernie

[-] Pinklink@lemm.ee 4 points 7 months ago

Yeah but then they stabbed him in the back because they were scared he would do well (which he probably would) and they are just as scared of the system actually being shaken up

[-] owen@lemmy.ca 2 points 7 months ago

This is so stupid. Essentially 50 million into the money pit.

[-] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 3 points 7 months ago

Nice to see you truthful once in awhile. Many don't believe that the US/Russia/China are backing far right around the world despite the fact

[-] zephr_c@lemm.ee 7 points 7 months ago

They've always been pretty open about supporting extremist nutjobs in swing districts, because extremist nutjobs do terribly in general elections in swing districts.

[-] deft@lemmy.wtf 4 points 7 months ago

Coke and Pepsi game. Everyone does this.

China's intelligence community is closer friends with America's intelligence community than either of their own population.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 7 months ago

brotherly https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spies-espionage.html

[-] deft@lemmy.wtf 5 points 7 months ago

Intelligence communities are closer friends with each other than their own people.

Since you have so much free time go find the list of people imprisoned by either country, executed by either country and killed either directly or indirectly by these countries. You'll see what I'm saying.

They have a better chance of making money one way than another, that's always what all of this is about. Money.

Intelligence communities are better friends with each other than their own people.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 9 points 7 months ago

This is one of those I'm 13 and this is deep takes.

WHAT. WOULD. YOU. HAVE. ME. DO. INSTEAD?

Memes

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