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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by CaspianXI@lemmy.world to c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world

I have a friend who has been using an e-cigarette for 10+ years. He doesn't seem any less addicted to smoking as back when he was using old-fashioned cigarettes.

I understand e-cigarettes are supposed to help you quit... but has anyone actually had success with them? Or, is it more like trading one vice for another?

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[-] Cyanogenmon@lemmy.world 66 points 1 year ago

Current e-cig user here.

Honestly, as a smoker, it's a godsend. The smoke goes away so quickly, it has higher nicotine than cigarettes when purchased the RIGHT way, and since I can now smoke inside, I can puff on it all day every day as I work from home!

In all seriousness, it's worse imo. It sets the precedent from the 50s of smoking EVERYWHERE and now without any of the negative outward effects like smell or yellowing of the teeth/walls.

It's honestly made my addiction worse. To each their own for sure, but in my experience it just made my bad habit SLIGHTLY healthier, but much more accessible.

It requires a significant amount of willpower to break the addiction, but for those of us that do not, definitely do not pick this up. It will not help. If you have that willpower, it is useful.

[-] NightOwl@lemmy.one 20 points 1 year ago

It seems useful for people who were addicted to cigarettes by providing a potentially less harmful alternative.

But, for the generation that didn't have addiction to cigarettes prior to E cigarettes I wonder how many went on to pick up the addiction to nicotine they otherwise wouldn't have, since smoking cigarettes seemed to be going out of style.

[-] tal@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I do kind of wonder what the endgame of addictive product development is. I mean, if you assume that technology can both reduce negative side effects and make the product more-potently-addictive, absent some sort of social movement or something opposed to them, I would think that we would get closer to a point where there is stupendously-addictive stuff that has no intrinsic harm other than the addiction itself, but that the addiction could be crippling and extremely hard to kick.

Science fiction has explored the concept:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirehead_%28science_fiction%29

Wireheading is a term associated with fictional or futuristic applications of brain stimulation reward, the act of directly triggering the brain's reward center by electrical stimulation of an inserted wire, for the purpose of 'short-circuiting' the brain's normal reward process and artificially inducing pleasure. Scientists have successfully performed brain stimulation reward on rats (1950s) and humans (1960s). This stimulation does not appear to lead to tolerance or satiation in the way that sex or drugs do. The term is sometimes associated with science fiction writer Larry Niven, who used the term in his Known Space series. In the philosophy of artificial intelligence, the term is used to refer to AI systems that hack their own reward channel.

Wireheading, like other forms of brain alteration, is often treated as dystopian in science fiction literature.

In Larry Niven's Known Space stories, a "wirehead" is someone who has been fitted with an electronic brain implant known as a "droud" in order to stimulate the pleasure centers of their brain. Wireheading is the most addictive habit known (Louis Wu is the only given example of a recovered addict), and wireheads usually die from neglecting their basic needs in favour of the ceaseless pleasure. Wireheading is so powerful and easy that it becomes an evolutionary pressure, selecting against that portion of humanity without self-control.

[-] Atmosphere99@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

There are tons of harmful chemicals and tar you aren't inhaling by vaping, instead of by combustion with traditional cigarettes. Not sure if they're worse.

[-] Cyanogenmon@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Being that I now vape from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed simply due to accessibility, I'd say it's worse.

[-] Quatity_Control@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

Is vaping worse, or are you?

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[-] dizzy@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

Estimates put out after research by Public Health England suggest that vaping is 95% better for you than smoking. So unless you’re vaping 20x more than you were smoking you’re probably benefitting.

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[-] MicroThePirate@lemmy.world 48 points 1 year ago

Depends - it can be used to quit by controlling and lowering the nicotine content, but it could just be used as a harm reduction method.

While certainly not healthy, it’s significantly much less bad for you than smoking.

[-] db2@lemmy.one 32 points 1 year ago

Burnt cigarettes have over 9000 different chemicals, several of which are addictive MAOI antidepressants. It's not the nicotine hooking people to the level we see in smokers, it's that, they're having legitimate withdrawal symptoms from a legitimate drug dependency. Nicotine itself at the levels anyone takes it in is maybe a little more addictive than caffeine.

Ecigs, at minimum, have propylene glycol (GRAS) and nicotine which isn't necessarily from tobacco, and even the nicotine is optional. Many have a couple other ingredients like vegetable glycerine (makes "smoke" clouds puffier) and flavorings, but even loaded up it doesn't compare to the count in the first paragraph. Ecigs also don't burn anything unless you're doing it very wrong.

Also since I'm on the soap box anyway, when you hear fear stories about "vaping" they're usually lumping in thc/marijuana which is effectively different even though it doesn't need to be. Because it's regulated if not illegal you'll chance getting things like adulterated cartridges with oils in them, if you breathe in oil particles you're getting pneumonia. So when you're reading or hearing about some scary story it's probably that and the one "reporting" is too lazy or too ignorant to make the distinctions they should.

[-] _finger_@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

That was the vitamin E acetate shenanigans from a few years ago that people were cutting with THC concentrate to make it look thicker/more quality than it actually was. Huge disinformation campaign somehow made nicotine vapes the bad guy even though it was entirely unrelated

[-] hungover_pilot@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

This is what I did. Started at a "normal" nicotine level, then once I was used to that level and wasn't getting any cravings (took a few months usually) I would lower my nicotine strength a little bit then repeat the process. It made it way easier for me to quit once I did. I barely got any cravings.

[-] CheshireSnake@iusearchlinux.fyi 6 points 1 year ago

I vape now. I used to smoke a lot. I agree it can be effective but the end result may not always be complete withdrawal from nicotine.

While certainly not healthy, it’s significantly much less bad for you than smoking.

It's much better, tbh, aside from the health benefits vs cigarettes. The stench is no longer there - at worse, it's just this annoying sweet smell. No more cig butts that you have to dispose of all the time - I know use "pods" which, if I'm stressed, I replace after 5-6 days. If anyone's a smoker, I'd recommend to switch to vape. But if not, I'd suggest they stay away from vapes/nicotine.

[-] imrichyouknow@sh.itjust.works 36 points 1 year ago

E-cigarettes is designed to replace cigarettes nowadays, not to help you quit smoking.

[-] TurnItOff_OnAgain@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

If you use them that way. You can also dial down the nicotine in them to zero to wean yourself off of it.

[-] gchap@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

That's what I did after 5 years of vaping. Gradually went down to 0.5% nic and finally quit in May.

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[-] PopularUsername@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

I actually just made the experience worse and worse without adjusting the nicotine. Switched to unflavored, then switched to freebase, then my vape broke and I started using my shitty old vape. It became a chore to smoke so it was easy to stop.

Although, I've usually been pretty good at controlling my nicotine when needed, so I would not describe myself as some highly addicted even when I was vaping a lot.

[-] havokdj@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

freebase

Mfer are you smoking crack?

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[-] Sear@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago

I successfully quit with vaping.

Switched to vaping not with the intent to quit, but to just get rid of the smell I get after smoking. While trying different flavors, in time I decreased the amount of nicotine every time I time I bought a new bottle. I then slowly started to forget to bring it with me when I leave the house until I vaped exclusively in my home and after a few more months decided to just throw it all away.

[-] allywilson@sopuli.xyz 15 points 1 year ago

Very similar here. Smoking buddy at work was turning 40 and was like "If we don't quit now, we never will!" so headed to a random vape shop. Bought a vape for lke £50, was on 1.2mg nicotine strength. First day was fine. 2nd day was tough. 3rd was also tough. 4th day I realised "oh shit, never going back to smoking...I feel fine. I can work with this." So that caused me to panick but then thought ok, bought the same vape as a redundancy (so as to not have to fall back on ciagarettes).

Then, after 6 months switched to 0.6mg nicotine. 6 months after that, 0.3mg. 3 months after that 0.2mg (put my high school chemistry hat on, figured 10ml 0.3mg + 10ml 0.3mg + 10ml 0.0mg mixed up in a 30ml bottle = 0.2mg per 10ml). 1 month after that 0.1mg, 1 month after that 0.0mg - 1 month later, stopped entirely (you genuinely just start forgetting about it, it's weird).

Went from 30 cigarettes a day to no nicotine and no vape in 18 months.

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[-] Flibbertigibbet@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I also quit with vaping, but in a roundabout way. I used to smoke, but my wife would not have me smoking indoors, and my office was likewise no smoking, so I was on perhaps 10 cigarettes a day. I switched to vaping, and still couldn't vape in the office, but my wife didn't mind me vaping at home if I restricted it to one room.

Then COVID happened, and I ended up working from home. So... Even though the amount of nicotine I was using in the vape was low, I had nothing stopping me from vaping all the time, which is what I did. I actually began feeling just as bad in terms of lung capacity when vaping as I had when I was smoking, largely because I was vaping pretty much constantly whilst awake.

One day I just had a flash of self control, and. chucked my vape, batteries, coils and all the paraphernalia. That was late 2020, and I haven't vaped or smoked since.

Weirdly, even though I ultimately went cold turkey, I do think switching to vaping from smoking helped me to quit. There was a marked improvement in my lung capacity and ability to smell during that time, and that gave me hope.

[-] Norgur@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

This is exactly my story. Nicotine free for years.

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[-] BitingChaos@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

They work just fine.

They get you off cigarettes. Problem solved.

You'll just be vaping all the time, instead.

They were never for quitting everything. Just cigarettes.

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[-] jocanib@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

He's not smoking.

Pure nicotine is about as harmful as caffeine. Some people will want to quit it altogether, others find it useful. It's all good.

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[-] UnhappyCamper@kbin.social 20 points 1 year ago

My husband just traded one for the other. We'd like to think it's "healthier", but who knows. Definitely stinks less which I appreciate.

[-] Nougat@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

I did the same thing, about eight years ago. By day three, I wasn't coughing up phlegm anymore. By day five, I could climb stairs without getting winded. After about a year, my dentist told me that my gums were way healthier.

Is it beneficial, when compared to not doing it? Most probably not. Is it far less damaging than inhaling tobacco smoke? Absolutely.

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[-] poleslav@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

As someone who smoked a pack a day until last year and switched to an e-cigarette yeah, they can definitely be helpful in quitting. I have a few friends who switched over and slowly lowered the nicotine levels until they had non nicotine and kept it for the oral fixation. Personally I switched just because it’s a lot cheaper, and I don’t have plans to lower nicotine anytime soon, but I’ve even felt better using just the ecig compared to normal smokes.

[-] BassTurd@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

It worked for me, but the intent was to quit. Your friend isn't trying if it's been more than a decade. I started at a higher nicotine, and slowly got lighter nicotine options. Once I got to 0 nicotine, it was mostly just breaking the physical desire to do something when my hands were free or while driving. I think I only bought one bottle of 0 nicotine and moved on.

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[-] Grimlo9ic@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago

I'd been smoking cigarettes for 11 years and just switched to vaping 2 months ago. My lungs feel much, much better. I can walk up multiple flights of stairs/longer distances without getting winded. My mouth also no longer has that eternal burnt paper taste, especially when I wake up in the mornings.

So for the purposes of what I switched to vaping for - to ease back on destroying my lungs - vaping/e-cigs work. I used to smoke 2 packs in about a week and a half. I'd say the amount I vape now is the equivalent of 1 pack every month (I don't constantly hit it throughout the day).

I have no doubt that inhaling vapor with that density is still not good, but it's better than what I was doing previously.

As for helping to quit the habit entirely, I think that's the opposite of their goal. All these fruity flavors they keep coming out with seem like they're designed to be popped like candy.

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[-] Ixoid@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago

For me, it was a very effective way of cutting down on my nicotine intake, as others have described, by mixing my own ejuice.
I vaped for 10-12 months with diminishing nicotine, then quit altogether. I 100% would recommend for smoking cessation.
I do wonder about those who demand an end to an nearly-harmless substitute for dirty tobacco - are we really willing to sacrifice 'good' for 'perfect'?

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[-] scarabic@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

I found this question surprising. “Do they work?” At first I didn’t understand - work at what? Then I realized that you’re thinking of them as quitting smoking devices. They’re not that. It’s an alternative to smoking. You inhale fewer particulates but often more nicotine, and there have been some health questions about the oils that serve as a medium for the nicotine and how healthy they are to inhale. It’s not thoroughly understood yet and there’s a big range of products out there.

The companies that sell them will swear up and down that they are to help you quit. And some users of them will tell you how much healthier it is and how they’re halfway to quitting. This is all, essentially, lies that they are telling themselves and you.

If you want to see a nicotine abatement product, check out nicotine gum or patches. There is nothing enjoyable about them. They allow the user to divide quitting into two stages: first, getting the habit out of their system, and second, phasing out their nicotine addiction. They do not deliver any enjoyment or rush, and are designed to be clinical and dull. The gum is hard and has a medicine flavor and plain grey color.

E-cigs on the other hand, enhance smoking. They allow you to smoke in more places. They add fruity flavors. The gadgets are cool and the different things you fill them with are stylishly presented. You still go through most of the motions of smoking and you’re getting more nicotine than before.

Why would anyone consider that a quitting tool? It absolutely is not.

[-] ABCDE@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Because so many of us have quit using them, as you can ween yourself off of the nicotine with lower and lower concentrations.

[-] Sendbeer@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

People HAVE used them to quit successfully though. You can keep lowering the nicotine levels on them slowly in a similar manner as the nicotine gum and patches and it tends to be cheaper.

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[-] HipPriest@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago

I switched to vaping because I'd just met my now wife and she hated the smell of smoke and all the associated stuff that goes with it, partly because she'd just come out of a bad relationship with a chain smoker but also because it's just not nice for non smokers anyway.

That was about 10 years ago and I still vape. I'm will aware that I've just swapped one addiction for another but I don't consider myself a smoker - haven't touched a cigarette since, and genuinely never wanted to for a very long time now. My lungs still feel a lot better, I can run and do excercise without feeling like my lungs are imploding.

A lot of the studies done on vaping it should be noted use old fashioned kit and unrealistic use case scenarios (such testing until a coil gives out - a coil would usually last someone at least a week) -but even taking that into account I'll take my chances with vaping. I tried all the other methods of giving up smoking and none of them worked for me so this is the closest.

As I side note, I am against disposable vapes and think the law should crack down on sales to underage people. A solution would be to only sell in established vape shops and require ID with every sale. I'm not naturally hard-line about this sort of thing but the school vaping thing is well out of control and is need of sorting out

[-] fourstepper@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I am currently using e-cigarettes as a former smoker

I would say:

  • if you aren't smoking already, there isn't really a good reason to start
  • if you are smoking and sort of kind of want to continue, e-cigarettes are most likely healthier than analog
  • if you are smoking analog and want to quit, there are better ways to quit for sure - I don't feel like committing to quitting just yet, however when I do feel committed, I will go with the tips outlined towards the end of the Huberman Lab - Nicotine’s Effects on the Brain & Body & How to Quit Smoking or Vaping podcast
[-] CosmicApe@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

From now on I'm going to refer to cigarettes as analogue vapes

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[-] Kissaki@feddit.de 12 points 1 year ago

They're not inherently "supposed to help you quit". That's only if you use them with that superficial intention.

They certainly allow you to reduce or remove nicotine intake - because you can change the fluid.

[-] zikk_transport2@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

This is healther alternative to smoking and way easier to quit.

Quiting is relatively easy if done the right way - add less and less nicotine shot to each bottle until you start forgetting your vape. For example, go from 3mg/ml to 0mg/ml in the period of 6 months.

[-] Ddhuud@lemmynsfw.com 10 points 1 year ago

I understand e-cigarettes are supposed to help you quit...

That's where your wrong, kiddo

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[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago

It can help, yes. But if you don't want to quit, it will just be trading one for the other.

What I can say is that vaping is at the very least, less harmful than cigarettes. You don't get a lot of the combustion by-products you do with cigarettes.

It's not less addictive, and I'm not going to claim it's healthier, just less harmful. Addiction to nicotine in any form is still an addition. Vaping doesn't do anything different than cigarettes when it comes to nicotine. Its still an addictive substance, and the only real benefit you get from vaping (in terms of quitting) is detailed control over the concentration of nicotine in what you're ingesting. This won't matter if instead of vaping for 5 minutes per hour at 6mg, you're vaping 10 minutes per hour at 3mg.

In the end, it's entirely up to you. Vaping is a tool that can give you the control to accomplish the task of quitting, if that's what you're intending to do. If you're just looking for something less harmful, but don't have the drive to actually try to quit, it's just going to substitute one for the other.

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[-] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The correct answer is: It heavily depends on your individual circumstances. There is behaviours that are difficult to change. And there is nicotine, which is quite addictive. Some people can change things quite easily, while it's next to impossible for other people.

Vaping should come with far less health risks than smoking. you don't smell and your lung capacity gets to a normal level if you get from smoking to vaping.

So either your friend is for example addicted to nicotine. Or their intention is something else than quitting this. Maybe they like e-cigarettes and don't see a reason to get rid of it. You'd have to ask them if they're even trying to quit.

[-] seperis@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

I started vaping seven years ago as a way to quit smoking; I smoked my last cigarette literally outside the vape store before walking in and asking what to I buy to pull this off as nothing worked. The transition was seamless; not only did I never even crave a cigarette again, I very quickly learned to loathe the smell of cigarettes once my full range of smell came back. There's not even a temptation to start up again.

It also helps that I choose vapes that smell amazing.

I am still vaping, yes, but I'm stepping down my nicotine pretty much every two years. I started at 24 and am now at 15 (I was stuck at 18 for a while). Those transitions I can definitely feel, but I can start with adjusting my mod's wattage, air flow, use different coils for a bit, and ease into it so once I step down, there's no chance I step back up, and then reward myself sometimes with a new fancy mod with a touchscreen with more leds or a cooler tank or something. All that and I am spending an order of magnitude less than I ever did on cigarettes and I have the math to prove it.

It's certainly not ideal and yeah, it's slow and basically only progressively reducing harm, but it's a process that for me is guaranteed to work with no backtracking and progress is assured.

[-] pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I’m to far less harmful for you, but it’s a good aid for quitting too.

I quit by getting progressively weaker liquid. Sometimes I mixed my own and sometimes I’d have a vape shop do it. Every time, I would reduce nicotine content by 10% of whatever my current nicotine level was. Normally if I ran out, I would be in my car going to buy more. But after about a year of lowering nicotine this way, I ran out and said to myself, “I’ll get some the next time I’m out.” And I never did buy more.

The anti vaping laws are atrocious. They often seek to ban the type of e cigarettes that actually let you mix your own liquid or have vape shops mix them. The bills actually require tobacco flavoring and flavoring is the component with the least known health effects. Everything else is pretty well settled and reasonably safe relative to alcohol and caffeine.

[-] vinceman 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Why do people care so much if I have a vice? Why is everyone up my ass on this? I like nicotine, I'm sure your friend does too. They do not need more of a reason.

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this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2023
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