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[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 210 points 9 months ago

Parents who buy their children guns at all need to all be evaluated. There is seriously something wrong with giving children something whos intended purpose is delivering lethal force.

[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 118 points 9 months ago

I don’t find it weird for hunting, but giving a child unrestricted access to firearms is insane to me given children are not able to assess risk the same way adults do.

[-] tim-clark@kbin.social 77 points 9 months ago

A lot of "adults" don't seem to assess the risks either.

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 44 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Oh, I don't mean temporary custody under controlled and hopefully educated circumstances, but those who hand it over completely. A kid simply does not need that power nor have the responsibility for full time custody.

Hell, the government wants people 18+ before they'll hand someone a gun and let them go die for something...

[-] USSEthernet@startrek.website 11 points 9 months ago

Smoking and drinking age is 21. Maybe gun ownership age should be bumped up too.

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"Hey son, here's a firearm, let's go kill something, systematically eviscerate and skin it, and then consume its flesh while taking joy and pride in each step of the process. Oh, don't ever do this to humans or dogs." I dunno, seems pretty weird to me.

[-] BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 52 points 9 months ago

You're loosely describing most of human history.

"Let's take these plant babies and grind them into a pulp, drown it, let it be eaten by a bunch of tiny monsters until they fart enough gas, and then burn it" also sounds kinda weird. Welcome to the universe; shit's a little whack.

[-] pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online 17 points 9 months ago

Anything sounds weird if you abstract it enough.

[-] GONADS125@feddit.de 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

You're loosely describing most of human history.

To play devils advocate, you're arguing an appeal to tradition, which is a logical fallacy.

Just because we've historically operated in a certain way, it does not mean it is morally permissible behavior.

The appeal to tradition has been used to argue in favor of slavery, racism, and a lot of other horrendous human behavior.

[-] rambaroo@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago

So? It's patently obvious that millions of people go hunting every year without turning into mass murderers. Pointing out logical fallacies isn't an argument.

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[-] devnull406@lemmy.world 19 points 9 months ago

Before he passed away, my kids' grandfather bought all his grandkids their first 22 rifle. Some of the cousins were still infants but he wanted to buy them something. He was a prolific hunter and marksman. My kids guns all lived in the safe until they were old enough to shoot them, and now they live in the safe when not in use. You can give guns to kids all day long, that's not the problem and the gun is not the problem.

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[-] UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

"A lot of "adults" don't seem to assess the risks either."

Your frontal lobe on average fully develops at 25 and for some when they're older.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3129331/

[-] AFaithfulNihilist@lemmy.world 24 points 9 months ago

That is when your brain stops really growing and developing, it's not some threshold of social or intellectual maturity.

If anything, people become less adaptable, less open-minded, and less cooperative after that. It's not something we get to lord over young people, it's a mark against us olds for being less capable of growth.

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[-] Rooskie91@discuss.online 46 points 9 months ago

I know you're not referring to hunting rifles, but it is very common to give those as gifts to teenagers when they are old enough to get a hunting license. In some places that's 12 years old.

My parents also made me take a course on gun safety tho....

And they wouldn't let me use it unless it was with them....

So this lady definitely still deserves her sentence. Also, no kid needs and AR or a pistol.

[-] 520@kbin.social 33 points 9 months ago

Some of that stuff you mentioned needs to be mandatory IMO. I'm talking about gun safety lessons for all firearm owners.

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[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 17 points 9 months ago

In some places that’s 12 years old.

Whyyy? Hunting is a dangerous sport that is 100% not required that utilizes lethal weaponry. If a parent wants to take their kids hunting, they should be 100% responsible for them including having the license and owning the firearms. 16 seems like the bare minimum to allow children to engage with weaponry, but probably older to own.

[-] krellor@kbin.social 30 points 9 months ago

There's a huge difference between giving a child unrestricted access to a firearm, and taking them sport shooting in a controlled environment. I've helped with beginner shooting courses for kids in scouts. There is an adult with each kid, one round loaded at a time, etc. You can similarly control the environment hunting by using blinds, etc, where you oversee the use of the firearm, loading of round etc.

I'm not big into shooting, but from a safety perspective there are ways to hunt and sport shoot with kids in a very controlled way.

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

Keep in mind, a person earlier in this convo said some kids get one gifted when they get a hunting license, which can be as early as 12, so you're basically attempting to change the entire claim being made... Clearly, in many situations, kids ARE ending up with a firearm under their sole ownership.

[-] theyoyomaster@lemmy.world 24 points 9 months ago

Having a .22 under the Christmas tree and having unsupervised access to it are two very different things. I know plenty of people who got rifles for their younger children but keep them in a safe with their own guns until the kids are older.

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[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 32 points 9 months ago

Outside of America, buying a gun at all is rather grounds for evaluation. Inside America, it's still mental but #theConstitution.

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[-] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 94 points 9 months ago

Shame it didn’t go this way for Rittenhouse.

[-] UmeU@lemmy.world 19 points 9 months ago

I think rottenhouse was charged with 1st degree only and not 2nd degree, which was ridiculous. Trying to prove he had a premeditated intent to kill that night was a bad strategy by the prosecution. They would have gotten a conviction if they charged 2nd degree or even manslaughter, negligence resulting in death, or whatever.

Its hard not to have conspiratorial thoughts when realizing that the only reason rottenhouse got off scott free was because he wasn’t properly charged. They could have charged him with 1st, 2nd, and manslaughter and let the jury decide, but for whatever reason they only charged 1st, even though they couldn’t prove intent.

From the moment that trial started I was so frustrated because I knew they wouldn’t be able to prove intent which was necessary for the charges. I’ll never understand why they didn’t properly charge him.

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[-] Retrograde@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

He'll get what's coming to him

edit: jeez guys I was just trying to lighten the mood but yeah you're all spot on

[-] Got_Bent@lemmy.world 25 points 9 months ago

I mean, has George Zimmerman gotten anything that's "coming to him?"

Seems like he's been in a total shit storm of events, but suffered consequences for nothing.

Rittenhouse will have his nose so far up the maga go fund me grift should anything ever happen, he'll never know anything more than a minor inconvenience.

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[-] GooseFinger@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Why? The circumstances between the two are very different.

I feel like a lot of people who hold this opinion are unaware of what actually happened with Rittenhouse. The media painted him as a careless kid who used a gun law loophole to take part in riots, where he committed a mass shooting in a state he didn't live in and got away with it.

What actually happened, is that he went to Kenosha (where his Dad lives, like 10 minutes from his Mom's house),to help protect his family friend's business, help peaceful people that got hurt during the riot/protests, and to clean messes left by disorderly people like graffiti. Later that night, he tried putting out a fire that rioters started near at a gas station, and they attacked him for doing that. Someone threatened to kill Rittenhouse, started chasing him, cornered him, grabbed his gun, and only then did Rittenhouse shoot him. He then immediately went for the police, but was chased down and attacked by more people, where one clubbed his head and another pulled a handgun on him. He shot and killed one, then shot another but backed off after he was clearly no longer a threat.

This was textbook self defense. We can discuss whether what he did was intelligent in regards to his own safety, or whether the laws he followed should be changed, but point is, a mob was literally running him down with clear outspoken intention to murder him, and Kyle only defended himself when running away was impossible.

~~And he wasn't charged with 1st degree murder, that's misinformation. A five second search clearly shows this. He was charged with two counts of homicide, one count of attempted homicide, and two counts of reckless endangerment. These charges have much lower bars than 1st degree murder, yet a jury (who judged him based on real facts, not bullshit media narratives) acquitted him of all of them.~~

Edit: He was charged with first degree accounts, the wiki doesn't state this. However, the jury considered lesser charges and still acquitted. Here's an NPR article that goes into more detail.

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[-] UmeU@lemmy.world 84 points 9 months ago

I watched the whole trial. The verdict was definitely just, but her lawyer didn’t do her any favors. At one point, in a moment of frustration, her lawyer exclaimed ‘I’m going to kill myself’, at a trial for a mother of a kid who killed a bunch of kids.

She ‘opened the door’ to a whole bunch of evidence that had previously been ruled inadmissible, including the defendants infidelity and the entire text communications between the defendant and her husband.

She said “I’m sorry” about a thousand times, which I am convinced was an intentional strategy to associate the defense with being sorry.

They weren’t supposed to use the shooters name but she used it three times in her opening statement.

Most of her objections were not valid legal objections, but just argument.

The whole thing was a train wreck, I actually feel bad for her (the attorney not the defendant).

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[-] beefbot 52 points 9 months ago

This is good news and it’ll be better news when I see a father getting nailed for giving his sons guns

[-] gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world 33 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)
[-] Retrograde@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

Cute that they tried to flee before trial. Shit parents AND insufferable cowards to boot!

[-] beefbot 9 points 9 months ago

Oh! I stand corrected and grateful to hear it, thank you. No /s, I’m glad you updated me

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[-] Buelldozer@lemmy.today 48 points 9 months ago

As a 2A Advocate / Gun Guy all I can say is GOOD. Parents who do this deserve to held legally responsible.

[-] PoliticalAgitator@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

Does that include all the children who kill themselves with their father's gun?

[-] acceptable_pumpkin@lemmy.world 22 points 9 months ago

If a minor gets a gun and does something illegal, including killing themselves, the parents should 100% be charged. There is no scenario where it would be ok for a minor to get access to a gun without supervision and approval by their parents.

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[-] Buelldozer@lemmy.today 21 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Why did you gender that?

In answer to your question I'll say "It would depend on the circumstances." A weapon retrieved from a nightstand, or a mothers purse, and used by a small child to kill themselves is a very different situation than a teen who accesses a gun safe without permission.

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[-] humorlessrepost@lemmy.world 32 points 9 months ago

Thumbnail looks like Mitch McConnell has reconsidered his stance on drag.

[-] PoliticalAgitator@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

There's things they chose to be that are far worse than "unattractive".

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[-] bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 21 points 9 months ago

Gun manufacturers should take note, they are one step away from fault now.

[-] teamevil@lemmy.world 42 points 9 months ago

So before you say that, read the article. She refused to take her kid home when the school said he wasn't mentally okay because she "couldn't" miss work.

The CEO of her company testified she absolutely could have missed the day for her kid.

Turns out she wanted to meet her affair partner instead of helping her child suffering from a mental breakdown.

[-] aidan@lemmy.world 48 points 9 months ago

I don't know the situation, but of course the CEO will say that, whether she'd be punished or not

[-] Chee_Koala@lemmy.world 20 points 9 months ago

This is probably 100% true, but in the article it is stated that the defendant agreed with it during trial.

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[-] eran_morad@lemmy.world 17 points 9 months ago

She can get fukt

[-] easydnesto@sh.itjust.works 15 points 9 months ago

This was the case where the parents decided to be tried separately right? I wonder if we’ll see both end up in the same sentence.

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[-] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 13 points 9 months ago

Justice done, but ultimately this doesn't solve anything.

[-] fne8w2ah@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

Now go for the gun manufacturers next!

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I don't see practically how you could do that. If it's legal for people to buy guns then it must be legal for people to make guns.

The manufacturers are also not the ones making decisions on who the guns are sold to, it's the gun stores that are doing that. Go after the gun store owners that don't run proper background checks.

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this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2024
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