114

Closing toilet lid before flushing doesn't keep viral spray inside, study suggests (www.cidrap.umn.edu)

submitted 1 year ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/science@lemmy.world

41 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Contrary to previous study findings, closing the toilet lid before flushing doesn't stop aerosolized viruses from contaminating bathroom surfaces, scientists from the University of Arizona and Reckitt Benckiser LLC, the company that makes the disinfectant used in the study, report in the American Journal of Infection Control.

The researchers added a bacteriophage (virus that targets and kills bacteria) to household and public toilet bowls as a proxy for human intestinal viruses. After they flushed the toilets (with the lid open or closed in case of the household toilets), they measured viral contamination of the toilet and bathroom floor and walls.

"Research has demonstrated that people with COVID-19, even those who are asymptomatic, excrete severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) in fecal matter and other excretions," the researchers wrote. "Viruses contaminating urine and feces can be aerosolized in building restrooms during toilet flushing."

The resulting toilet aerosol plumes, they said, can land on surfaces more than 5 feet away.

all 44 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[-] MrZee@lemm.ee 76 points 1 year ago

Funded and authored by the company wanting to sell you their disinfectant.

Conflicts of interest: Drs. Julie McKinney and M. Khalid Ijaz are engaged in R&D at Reckitt Benckiser LLC. The other authors declare no competing interests.

Funding/support: This study was funded by a grant to the University of Arizona from Reckitt Benckiser.

[-] Icalasari@kbin.social 21 points 1 year ago

Ironically, stating the full truth would help them more. Mythbusters proved that even several rooms away will have fecal particles

[-] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The only way to stop this would be to change toilet lids to be an air tight seal (with some kind of 1 way valve to allow air in for flushing) or control the air flow, in a way that's strong enough to capture ejected particles, and suck it through a filter.

The second option would have the added benefit of capturing particulates when people are actually farting and shitting, as well as removing the smell.

[-] NMBA@mstdn.ca 1 points 1 year ago

@WhatAmLemmy @Icalasari
I’d guess the toilets with the vacuum suction (like planes) would pull in many of the aerosol articles, reducing density

[-] Pelicanen@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

Mythbusters proved that there are fecal bacteria everywhere and as such you can never reasonably completely avoid it. However, they didn't prove whether there are other bacteria or viruses that are kept contained with a closed lid compared to with an open lid, or if the viral/bacterial load is lower with a closed lid.

[-] mateomaui@reddthat.com 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They established this in one of the most disturbing MythBusters episodes years ago.

edit: actually, I’ve realized in that episode that the toilet didn’t have a lid, so while the experiment wasn’t the same, you can probably draw the same conclusion when control toothbrushes outside the bathroom were also affected

[-] momofake9u@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Can keyword to search? Interested to know more

[-] mateomaui@reddthat.com 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Still looking for the episode, but here’s a short writeup

https://tvovermind.com/far-worst-thing-ever-discovered-mythbusters/

edit: looks like it was episode 12

https://mythresults.com/episode12

https://mythbusters.fandom.com/wiki/Break_Step_Bridge_(Episode)

edit2: This is it from their Facebook page

https://m.facebook.com/MythBusters/videos/surprise-toothbrush/10152461851823224/

[-] Doorbook@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Tdlr, don't store toothbrush in washrooms.

[-] GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 year ago

IIRC the control in the kitchen also showed contamination. I wasn't convinced by their methodology with this one. They demonstrated that flushing DID create aerosols, but they did not isolate that effect. "Poop is everywhere" isn't really an answer to the question.

[-] mateomaui@reddthat.com 1 points 1 year ago

Or near the washroom. The two control brushes they had in a different room also had fecal matter on them.

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I mean, fair; the lid isn't a total seal so I expect it to be able to kinda come out around the edges of the lid; but wouldn't it still keep all the stuff at least in a smaller area? It's not blasting straight up in the air with the lid blocking it, is it? The floors and baseboards get cleaned pretty frequently; the ceiling not so much.

[-] Clarke311@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

You ever watch smoke dissipate when you blow out a candle??

[-] Timwi@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That is a great analogy. We always assume gravity is the same for everyone, but when you're as tiny as an aerosol droplet, air currents are a lot more relevant.

[-] PapaStevesy@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago

Just stop licking the bathroom ceiling.

[-] Empricorn@feddit.nl 2 points 1 year ago

Don't tell me how to live my life.

[-] EmergMemeHologram@startrek.website 3 points 1 year ago

Is kind of like holding a pot lid out to block a grenade. There’s some protection but practically zero.

[-] cdf12345@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

My main concern is always my toothbrush. But it’s on a counter above the toilet. So wouldn’t keeping the lid down help significantly, in both the direction and distance of whatever is stirred up?

[-] GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago

Turbulence might be enough bring it up and everywhere regardless. The movement of your own body would cycle air every which way right after you flush, plus many bathrooms have ventilation fans near the ceiling, drawing air upward.

[-] Willy@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

half of yall be eating ass but also worried about a little shit mist. you definitely don't want to know about farts.

[-] the_q@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Still gonna do it.

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 11 points 1 year ago

Every single thing in the world is covered in a thin film of bacteria

Not only that but the bacteria are constantly pooping on you

Also there are mites having sex on your face and burrowing into your hair follicles to hang out down there with their back ends sticking up into the air

They look like this

[-] itwasawednesday@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

So romantic

[-] red@sopuli.xyz 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Mythbusters busted this myth long before studies. Turns out that air pressure is enough to push the particles flying from the bowl despite the lid, because the toilet lid isn't a good air tight seal, and the air is pushed out due to water volume increase.

So basically closing the lid doesn't help.

[-] lagomorphlecture@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ok it doesn't 100 percent stop it or it doesn't help at all? Because I always assumed something as small as a poop bacteria could get through the little cracks but I also assumed having it go through the cracks was better than having it go through the massive entire open bowl where it seemed like more would spray out. Did they comparison test the amount of bacteria on surfaces or just prove that some gets through?

Edit: obviously I could be wrong but it also seems like having the lid down would direct more bacteria to lower surfaces whereas having it open would give an easier path to higher surfaces where we tend to keep things like toothbrushes.

[-] Pretzilla@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Probably depends on the amount of air pressure generated. Then any throttled venturi opening will increase the velocity through it.

Which is to say, closing the lid could make it shoot farther through the opening.

But that would also direct it horizontally vs vertically, which is probably preferred.

[-] Perhapsjustsniffit@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

It helps me not drop my toothbrush in there in our tiny bathroom though.

[-] Pelicanen@sopuli.xyz 0 points 1 year ago

Didn't Mythbusters just prove that the particular kind(s) of fecal bacteria they checked for are present everywhere at all times?

[-] BruceTwarzen@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

What previous studies? Wasn't there a mythbuster episode where they tested that like 15 years ago?

[-] AlexJD@feddit.uk 5 points 1 year ago

Surely it's still somewhat better than leaving the lid up though? Obviously not perfect but still.

[-] Mbourgon@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

There was a different study, last time (several years ago), that showed that when you pull the seat up, it acts like a vacuum and sucks the anerosol out into the room.

[-] kubica@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

So the solution is to never flush.

[-] ivanafterall@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

At some point, you have to flush, at which point science now suggests you also have to move into a new home.

[-] guyrocket@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Maybe just move into a new bathroom. Cheaper, right?

[-] mateomaui@reddthat.com 2 points 1 year ago

Just install an airlock. Probably still cheaper.

[-] Gork@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Hmm time to replace all toilets with friggin' autoclaves.

[-] blanketswithsmallpox@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

For all the people wondering if it's better to close the lid or leave it open. The point of the study and numerous others before is that it doesn't matter lmfao.

If you feel better with the lid closed and want to look down on others who keep it up, no amount of studies are going to change your mind. That's why you're in here asking for more while choosing to ignore this one, and the last ones, and mythbusters...

And because there's some weird overlap between ya'll... Yes, squirt is pee. There's no magical 4th dimension bladder ovaries that allows you to piss all over someone and call it female jizz.