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Everytime I read these kind of takes, I think to myself 'Where the fuck is Russia getting all this money to mess with the USA election?'
Naomi Klein is a real person with a real history of political opinions not controlled by shadowy Russian masterminds. Maybe, just maybe, you're hearing this criticism all over the place because it's actually a real issue and "must be Russians" is a comfortable mental shutoff to avoid thinking about how the ego of the most powerful person in the country could be leading us into political danger.
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Maybe the answer is that Russia isn’t doing what you think they’re doing. Blaming the failures of our electoral system on Russia is so 2016.
Eh, I mean they did mess around, but they were mainly just exacerbating existing issues and fault lines.
That's exactly how it works. Find the fault lines and apply pressure. If you do it right, it doesn't even cost much.
Eh, it doesn’t move the needle very much though. It only really does anything when there’s already a very close situation. If the case were otherwise then there would probably be a lot less spending on campaigns
I disagree. Flooding the internet with disinformation isn't that expensive and although it's probably impossible to measure, I think there's tremendous potential to sway opinions.
Russian troll farms and bot farms come to mind.
To what you said, I don't think there would be so much effort if it didn't work.
This is one example: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/fake-joe-biden-robocalltells-new-hampshire-democrats-not-vote-tuesday-rcna134984
I haven't researched this or anything, but this kind of thing feels like low-hanging fruit that moves needles.
If you know of any interesting articles or studies about the topic, I'd definitely be interested in them! 🙂
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.... yeah they are
They still have enough oil for this - and American politicians are cheap.
Anybody else feel like Lemmy is like 60% Russian trolls lately?
Anybody else feel like Lemmy is like 60% Russian trolls lately?
China and Russia both
Most of the super progressive takes are just ways that would definitely help Trump retake the Whitehouse so...yeah.
Always has been man, this place is kind of a dump
Yeah it fucking sucks. Trolls and 14 year old edge lords with no understanding of how the real world works
Maybe someone here could refresh my memory. I could have sworn that during 2020 campaigning, Biden indicated he would be a one term president that would willingly let a younger Democrat run for 2024. I haven't seen anyone really rake him through the coals over that, so maybe it was some misinformation that was spread to make him more attractive, but I feel like it was a really key reason I felt comfortable supporting him.
I think they wanted to, but the young alternatives that the party leaders and donors liked have almost 0 popular support. Buttigieg, Harris, Yang, Gabbard, and Klobuchar were all relatively “young”, the party insiders liked them, the donors/media owners don’t hate them, but the average democratic voter ether dislikes them or is apathetic.
The people who do have popular support say things that scare donors and media owners. So they have spent years trying to convince the party and moderate voters that they’re not viable candidates.
So Biden it is because incumbent advantage.
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I will always remember that moment in the 2020 Dem primary debates where Swalwell relayed a story about going to a political rally as a 6 year old and hearing the candidate tell people to pass the torch to the younger generation, and then revealing that Biden was that candidate, and Biden then quipping that he'd "hold onto" the torch for now.
He literally is so arrogant that he truly believes he is the only person alive who can beat Trump. He'd rather be buried with that torch than admit that there are many others that could do far better than him.
The thing is though, I think he's right. There is no younger alternative to him that has any chance of winning an election right now. At best, some are popular among college-aged males, a group that thinks they are far more important and numerous than they actually are (see also: Bernie-Bros).
Newsome would wipe the floor with Biden's crappy poll numbers, and I don't even like him.
Your argument is literally the argument that was put forth against Obama when he first announced his run. People always falsely claim the DNC's ordained pick is the only path forward, when in reality they tend to eke out a win (or not, see 2016), while the dark horse candidates run away with elections.
The anti-Bernie rhetoric is #8 on the "Ur-DNC list of characteristics", where the alternative candidates are cast as both too strong and too weak; having enough support to tank the election, but also so little support as to be safely ignored.
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What Democrat governer, senator, congressman, mayor or whatever currently has the public profile to be electable nationally?
"Electable" is a subjective, moving goalpost.
You can easily discount Biden as being "electable" from polls that show him losing to Trump.
No one is excited for him, the most anyone can manage is that he beat Trump once, and after Gaza many people are markedly upset with the prospect of voting for him.
Point being, your question is inherently flawed: no one is voting for Biden because it's Biden, people are only going to vote because the other person has an 'R' next to their name, and even more people if that person is Trump. You could probably pick a registered Democrat at random and if they were the general election candidate see them do nearly as well as Biden, barring the crusty pro-Biden fossils who would withhold their votes out of spite.
And yes, I think there are actually politicians on the "left" that you could replace him with and have a much better chance of winning, Newsom (regardless of my issues with him) being the most obvious answer.
I get the idea of voting not-R vs excited to vote for the Dem. But Hillary Clinton would like a word.
I'm old. In almost every election it has been the same for me. Vote for the lesser of the evils. I would vote for a very progressive candidate if I thought they would have a chance. When I was young I did vote 3rd part a few times.
Voting for the lesser of the evils isn't exciting but you know what, it has been a vastly better plan seeing a Dem, any dem in power, than the R alternatives in my life. Compare to, Reagan, Bush, Shrub, and Mr Indictment.
For this current election, it is crazily out of balance. Contrary to popular opinion (real or manufactured) I believe Biden has been a good president. The Israel situation is deeply depressing and I am not happy with how that has been handled but I guarantee the world will be a much, much worse place with vastly more severe consequences if Biden loses.
I believe Biden has been a mostly-decent president, apart from the whole providing-weapons-for-genocide thing, or the whole authorizing-fossil-fuel-extraction-on-federal-lands-after-expicitly-promising-not-to thing, or the whole campaigning-for-more-police thing, or the whole aggressive-deportations-of-assylum-seekers thing... Oh wait.
And don't get me wrong, I don't want Trump to win; but I'm becoming more certain he will, barring a criminal conviction. Biden is weak, and getting weaker, as a candidate.
And you already have the DNC preparing for it, too, putting out op-eds about how if Biden loses, it will have been the fault of RFK, or West, or Bernie, or literally whoever else they can pin it on.
And at some point, if all you're doing is choosing the lesser-genocider, where any potential non-genociders are being actively sabotaged and removed from your options as a voter, you're not in a democracy, you're in a facade that makes you believe you have Representation, so you won't repeat what happens when you don't believe that.
And I'm not sure what you mean about Hillary wanting a word; she is the poster child for "not excited to vote for", and what happens when you force that candidate through anyways.
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January 6th occurred, Trump has been relatively unscathed, and Trump is running again. That's what has changed since 2019.
If Trump had been fully prosecuted, or had decided not to run Biden likely wouldn't be running.
Even if Biden beats Trump, I still fear for the effect of an apathetic, depressed voter turnout on down-ticket races. If Biden holds onto the presidency, but a congress and state and oocal races go the other way, we won't be in a great place.
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I think it is far too late for that.
Where the fuck is the VP? I have not seen her since she was elected.
She wants to run for president, probably thinks that being too public right now might hurt her reputation long term.
She stuck her neck out and tried to make a name for her self earlier in the presidency and was met by foaming frothing rage from the right (nothing new there despite openly pandering to them) and apathy or distaste from the left. She and her team probably think that response is from her association with Biden, but I suspect that is more to do with the vibe she gives off of being a careerist politician.
Being from Oakland a lot of us also know that she's totally fine jailing people for weed, you'd think that a rationale move you would try and step away from the "just doing my job DA" to "Vice President of the People" by pushing for policies that prevent unnecessary jailings.
But you're right, I didn't even really realize until now that Kamala has been almost seemingly less active than Mike Pence as VP. You're probably onto something with the long term campaign, although I also wouldn't be surprised if it was "suggested" that she let Biden take the lead or something.
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The older Americans hated Hillary. Much less than Biden, who they see as a benign figure. And they very much vote. Most of them have realized that Trump is a liar and unstable.
Remember when Biden told rich donors "nothing would fundamentally change" if he was elected? Man lived up to his word, smh
Biden told rich donors, "If you pay more in taxes, nothing will fundamentally change." That is, the union will not fall because they didn't get tax cuts. Don't be disingenuous about what actually happened.
Please don't spread misinformation by including something in quotes that is your own editorialization. The actual quote is 10 seconds of googling away:
"We can disagree in the margins but the truth of the matter is it's all within our wheelhouse and nobody has to be punished. No one's standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change."
https://www.axios.com/2019/06/19/joe-biden-wealthy-donors-demonize
Howdy. I am well aware of Klein, as her investigative journalism is what kept me motivated to keep asking questions about environmental justice and doing research. She, frankly, knows her shit and is one of the most well spoken and passionate people I've ever had the chance of reading and hearing.
And she's absolutely right. Without a shadow of a doubt, "hoping" the DNC doesnt suffer from the self inflicted "no-bernie no-vote" mistake is not enough. It's too close and too much is at risk for the people who do vote Democrat.
It's a good point. Biden's unconditional support for Netanyahu is not helping him at all (even though he seems to be trying to mediate in the background, he's not very successful and the optics are really bad).
But the question is, who else would be a candidate with enough support? He's counting on the incumbent bonus now but I also doubt it's good enough, if "not Trump" is the main thing he has going for him. I don't know US politics well enough to know about any alternatives. Buttigieg maybe?
But another Trump reign would be bad for the whole world order and climate so I really hope that won't happen.
I think a Bernie win would be amazing but I doubt he has enough hardliner support even on the Democratic side.
The thing is, the logic that Biden is holding to in order to justify clinging to his presidency (i.e. "people who don't want outright fascism must vote for me, they have no choice") applies just as well to any candidate who is put in the general.
Go watch Marianne Williamson speak and tell me she wouldn't do just as well if not better than Biden if it were her and Trump. The people who always talk about "gotta vote blue, even if it's the lesser of two evils" are going to vote for whichever Dem is in the race in the end. The only difference is, someone like Williamson could actually be pallatable to young people and the progressive base as well. You're not going to lose the liberal boomer dems, only gain younger progressives and liberals.
Biden stepping down would only be a win for Democrats, because he is the impediment to Democratic unity. People want something different, desperately.
The people who always talk about “gotta vote blue, even if it’s the lesser of two evils” are going to vote for whichever Dem is in the race in the end.
Of course but isn't it the swing voters that are most decisive? How would they react to a relatively unknown person?
I'd love to see a woman in that job though. It's about time.
Georgia didn't flip because of the "might vote Republic or might vote Democrate" swing voters people usually talk about; it flipped because of hoards of people who don't normally turn out at all finally were approached and motivated to do so. Another kind of swing voter, between "might not vote of all, or might vote Democrate."
Pundits make much of the first group because they always have, and because politicians insist on putting that group front and center in their priorities, but I think they become less and less of a genuinely powerful block as the two major parties get farther and farther apart. Who is even left in the middle, anymore? Never Trumpers, who won't vote for Trump anyway?
Meanwhile, Biden's unconditional aid for Israel's genocide is alienting Arab Americans, who have a lot of voting power in some key states, as well as a large (though I can't say exactly how large) portion of young, Black, and Latin American voters who can see the obvious racism at play.
I think he's made a political bet here to appeal to the people the DNC always tries to appeal to at the cost of other groups, but I genuinely think he may lose because of it, especially if Trump ends up sidelined and replaced with another Republican.
Then again, maybe pushing the abortion rights thing will make enough of a difference to counteract this. I don't know. But I hate that I feel like this election could easily go either way.
Meanwhile, Biden’s unconditional aid for Israel’s genocide is alienting Arab Americans, who have a lot of voting power in some key states
Hmm good point yes.
as well as a large (though I can’t say exactly how large) portion of young, Black, and Latin American voters who can see the obvious racism at play.
Yeah I was reading this article about how Trump is super loved by Cubans in Florida. I could hardly imagine it, his whole 2017 campaign was based on keeping the latino's out with his big-ass fence!! But they love his conservatism. Even though he's not actually conservative, he just does whatever he wants.
Then again, maybe pushing the abortion rights thing will make enough of a difference to counteract this
It's also such a hot topic with conservatives that it will really make them go vote, whereas it's something most democrats don't really care about as much (until they actually need one).
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Newsom.
Biden doesn't have support based on who he is. If he wins it will only be because people don't want Trump, so anyone else who hasn't pissed off most of the Democrat voter base will do just as well or better. Literally anyone on the street who can say that they aren't supplying bombs for an ongoing genocide.
Or Jay Inslee from Washington State who isn't running for reelection, or maybe JB Pritzker from Illinois, or (god forbid) another Democrat that doesn't fit the white guy in government mold.
The only reason it feels like there's no alternatives to Biden is that all the alternatives to Biden don't want to spoil the election, there's plenty of good and better choices out there. It's very frustrating.
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this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2024
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